The Get Ready Money Podcast

The Get Ready Money Podcast with Derek Notman: Fixing Our Relationship With Money

• Tony Steuer

Share episode

Send us a text

On the latest episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast, I spoke with Derek Notman, the founder and CEO of Couplr.ai about changing the way we think about money and fixing our relationship with money. 


In this episode we discussed:

  • The importance of recognizing that money is a tool.
  • Why we need to clarify what we want money to do for us. 
  • That once you know your problem, you can solve it. 
  • How artificial intelligence can help empower advisors to have deeper and more meaningful engagement with clients.
  • When we have a good relationship with money, when we are educated, when we are given good advice and guidance, a lot of good things can happen. 

Derek Notman is a the Founder & CEO of Couplr AI. Using data science and flip-flop-inspired thinking, we're tackling client acquisition & orphan client problems in the investment and insurance industries. Derek is the co-host of Rethink Financial Advice Podcast: We question everything about financial advice, because sometimes the best way to fix things is to laugh at them first.

Connect with Derek Notman:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dereknotman/

Couplr.ai : https://www.couplr.ai/


Podcast: 

ReThink Financial Advisor podcast

Support the show

Speaker 1:

Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and transform your financial future? Then you've come to the right place. This is the Get Ready Money Podcast with Tony Stewart, where Tony has insightful conversations with financial experts who are changing the way we think about money. Catch up on the latest financial trends and hear practical advice from Tony and his expert guests so you can build healthy habits that work, Be empowered with tips for implementing small changes that can have a big impact on your financial future. So sit back and get ready to hear from today's guest.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast changing the way we think about money. I'm pleased to be joined today by Derek Notman. Derek is the founder and CEO of Couplerai, as well as a co-host of the Rethink Financial Advisor podcast. In this episode, we'll be discussing Derek's insights on how we change the way we think about money. Sorry, derek. Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast. Thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 3:

Hey, Tony man, Great to be with you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. Well, that kind of intro right yeah.

Speaker 3:

I love it. No, that's good. Gotta have a little bit of fun. We're all humans right. Yeah, I love it. No, that's good. Gotta have a little bit of fun. We're all humans right.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah, definitely. So, anyway, you know, let's get started with a little bit of who you are. Tell us about yourself. What is your origin story?

Speaker 3:

So I was going to be Indiana Jones and it turns out that job was already taken and so I kind of through like a twisting weird path, ended up in financial services. I worked at a, I was a counselor at an at-risk treatment center for a couple of years, but I always knew I wanted to help people with their money, so ended up getting recruited by a large insurance broker dealer and the rest is history. Man Did that for a number of years. I'm still technically an advisor, I'm a CFP, but I call myself a recovering advisor at this point because I'm really focused more on the technology side now with another company that I'm working on. So that's the real quick and dirty origin story with you quick and dirty origin story with you.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome. So you know what. You know what created a passion or interest in moving from being a recovering advisor to going into financial technology.

Speaker 3:

So I I don't know if it's just the entrepreneurial itch, but I saw a problem that was affecting consumers, advisors and the companies that sell products and services all at the same time and I'm like man, no one else is solving this the way I think it should be solved and I'm like what the heck? I'm going to go do it. And just jumped right in with two feet pretty much and wanted to work on this thing that I'm calling. I want to fix our relationship with money is what I'm trying to do for a number of reasons, but that's how I got into it Insight, knowledge working as an advisor now for over 18 years, I have intimate knowledge of that space. I was like man, there's got to be a better way to do this and I'm going to go do it.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome. Well, you know, one is going back to Indiana Jones. It's probably a little more exciting than being a financial advisor, but not always practical for income.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, especially since, you know, harrison Ford already had a corner on that market. So I really had to go figure something else out. My bachelor's degree is in anthropology and archaeology, so I was positioned for it. Just bad timing. But I've always had a fascination with money from a very early age and as working as a counselor, as I said, with all this at-risk youth, I really learned that I loved helping people, and so I naturally over time was like well, where can I go help people and work with money? And the rest is history.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's awesome. That's awesome. Well, you know, let's talk about. You know a little bit about the mission to fix our relationship with. Money is why is it important to fix our relationship with?

Speaker 3:

money tool on the planet.

Speaker 3:

Almost everybody on the planet has access to some shape or form of currency, whether it's an actual currency or a barter system or something right.

Speaker 3:

We use it to do all the different things that we do, and the problem, though, is that when we don't have a good relationship with our money, when we don't know about it, when we're not educated about it, when we don't know how to use it correctly and what it can do, a lot of bad things can happen, things like poverty, hunger, high rates of divorce, not being able to retire or send the kids to school or buy a house.

Speaker 3:

But, on the flip side, when we do have a good relationship with money, when we are educated, when we are given good advice and guidance, education and so forth, a lot of good things can happen. We can serve our communities, we can take care of our families, we can retire. We can do things that are on our bucket list if you will. We can retire. We can do things that are on our bucket list if you will, and not enough people have access to the type of advice and guidance and education that I believe should have, especially since everyone on the planet almost has access to this tool. So I was like man. We got to fix this because when we fix our relationship with money, all of these really good things can happen in our family, our local community, national, global community. It's a cascading effect.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome and I definitely share that mission is that money is a tool. You said that and I think that's really important for people to understand is they prescribe all these magic powers to money. But it's really it's a tool, and how you use it, as you point out, is what's going to get people to their goals, whether it's retirement or whatever other goal they have. So it's understanding that is important. So you know what are some ways that we can fix our relationship with money.

Speaker 3:

One of the things I found really helpful was taking a step back and I've done this with my wife and my son is creating a vision board what's actually important to us in life.

Speaker 3:

And our vision board includes tangible assets like what type of car or house or stuff do I want, but also intangibles about healthy living, experiences, relationships, things of that nature, and we can use money to actually get a lot of those things done. But if we don't know what we're actually aiming for, then the money could go do all sorts of other things that maybe it shouldn't do. So I found that to be really, really helpful in not only clarifying what I want my money to do for me, but making me excited about it. Like telling me what mutual fund I'm going to be in or budgeting or how to pay off a credit card does not excite me in the slightest. Telling me how I can take my family on a vacation or pay for my kids' education or retiring or whatever. Now I'm listening, now I'm excited, because that's connecting the dots for me. I found a vision board to be very helpful with that.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome. That's a great suggestion. And, to you know, expand on what you're saying. Is you know, in my career as a consultant, working with clients and also with other advisors, is you know nobody asked me. You know straight out the question about, like you know about what type of life insurance or disability insurance policy. You know people were interested in the goals. You know I want to take care of my family. What's going to take care of my family? And, from an advisor standpoint, is like is this right insurance? You know not. You know like, hey, my, does my client need an indexed universal life insurance? It's more like what's going to help my clients reach their goal and is this insurance going to help them reach their goals? And I think that's so important for people to create that vision board and understand, as you pointed out earlier, the tool. What is the right tool to help you achieve that?

Speaker 3:

instead of starting with the tool, if you pick a side tool, you know, if you start with a tool, if you start with a hammer, all of a sudden everything looks like a nail right, like whoa, take a step back, put the hammer down. What are we trying to do here?

Speaker 2:

first, yeah, and I always pick on Bitcoin with this because you know that's the thing is. People always say, well, should I buy Bitcoin or not? That's not really the right question. Is Bitcoin the right tool to help you get to where you're going, rather than just like, hey, should I buy Bitcoin? And looking at that in a vacuum? So that's awesome advice. So let's talk about your company a little bit. What is Coupler AI?

Speaker 3:

Coupler, ai is the best way to find a financial advisor at the end of the day, so I wanted to create a technology-enabled solution that creates an amazing human connection experience. People are looking for help with their money insurance, investments, retirement, college budgeting, debt management the list goes on and on and on and they're looking for that help at a very, very large volume on a monthly basis. But money is very personal We've already been talking about this like hopes, dreams and goals and mistakes. Maybe we've made mistakes. Maybe we've made.

Speaker 3:

So as a consumer, I have to trust somebody enough to give them my money and to open up and share maybe some things I've done wrong or how little or how much I have, and last time I checked zip code and my email address and net worth do not determine a good human connection.

Speaker 3:

Shared commonalities, shared experiences, philosophies, interests, hobbies what I call human dimensions are how we connect with people. When we connect on those levels, we build rapport and ultimately trust much more quickly and deeper. On those levels, we build rapport and ultimately trust much more quickly and deeper, and if we have that, we have set the stage now for a great trusted relationship where a consumer can open up, and so it's a no-brainer when you hear it like that, but none of the solutions out there in the market that I saw were doing that. They were the hammer looking for the nail type of thing. That's what they were focused on, and so I wanted to create a solution that went upstream in the relationship process, if you will, to create kind of tongue and cheek. The best first date experience ever between a consumer and an advisor.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's awesome and you know, in talking about and we talked a little bit about this pre-show is so many of these sites are scattershot. You know, in talking about it we talked a little bit about this pre-show so many of these sites are scattershot. You know, here's 20 advisors and then there's 20 advisors contacting the client and again the consumer is overwhelmed because it's like how do I even know who Terrible experience, terrible yeah.

Speaker 2:

So you know, let's talk about AI for a minute, you know, because of course AI is in the news all the time. Can you define what AI is?

Speaker 3:

been getting a lot of press and hype because it's coming into its own. I think there's a big consolidation going on. But AI literally is just computers taking data and learning from that data and then spitting out results and things and suggestions and so forth on a much larger scale than has ever been done before and we can use that. We can use AI to do all manner of things. So it's pretty fascinating. I mean, it's core to our solution at Coupler, because we're learning a ton about consumer and advisor preferences and so forth, which we can use to create a better experience. So, yeah, I think it's great. It's interesting how it's all of a sudden become really popular, although it's been around for what? 70 years, almost, something like that. It's kind of wild.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome. Well, just well, when we haven't mentioned AI stands for artificial intelligence.

Speaker 1:

Sorry, oh no, that's okay.

Speaker 3:

I overlooked that as well?

Speaker 2:

So, you know, is that the same as machine learning that we also hear about?

Speaker 3:

So I'm not a technologist, so I don't think they are exactly the same no, but I think there are a lot of similarities. I think machine learning might be for lack of a better term. So, any technologists listening, my apologies because I'm not a technologist, but I believe machine learning might be as, again, lack of a better term a simpler version of what AI is now doing today when it comes to, like training, large language models and so forth, but I think there's also a lot of similarities. I also will throw in, though, that AI also could stand for advisor intelligence, and one of the sweet a lot of similarities. I also will throw in, though, that AI also could stand for advisor intelligence, and one of the sweet spots that we're seeing is that I think one of the places that advisors are going to shine in our industry moving forward are those that are using artificial intelligence to enhance advisor intelligence advisor intelligence.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I completely agree with you. I don't think that AI is going to replace the human advisor, but I think he used, probably appropriately, to enhance the consumer experience and allow the advisor to do more.

Speaker 3:

No question. I mean, tony, it's a tool. Right, we have our hammer, we have a screwdriver. Now maybe AI is our power saw right. So it's just another tool to help us do the things that need to get done. And, let's face it, advisors most advisors joined our profession to help people with their money, not to do all the back office stuff that's still required to run a practice. Ai can help with a lot of that behind the scenes stuff. It can help with marketing. It can help with all kinds of things to empower the advisor to have deeper and more meaningful engagement with clients.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome. I think that's such an important point for people to understand, because so many people go. Well, you know, maybe this will replace advisors, and I've seen some fintechs and we've both seen fintechs where they're trying to do that and I don't think that benefits consumers or advisors. At the end of the day.

Speaker 3:

No, I interviewed someone for my podcast. He made a really interesting comment. Ai does not have empathy. Human beings do, and human beings are wired to be empathetic and to connect with other human beings. So when you're dealing with your money especially when it's a decision that has a very high cost if you're wrong, like retirement pretty expensive if you mess that one up yeah um, you're going to want to talk to somebody that can be empathetic with you, somebody that can have a deep conversation. Maybe you used ai to get 85 of the way there, 50 of the way there, whatever it is, but you still need a human filter at the end to make darn sure this is what we want to do 100 and somebody with experience is.

Speaker 2:

You know that's. The other thing that's often overlooked in this conversation is that when you get that human input is it's not somebody on TikTok, it's somebody who's actually. I mean, you don't get medical advice from TikTok. I mean, hopefully you don't get medical advice.

Speaker 3:

I hope you don't right Like it's. Yeah, Well, I don't use TikTok, Leave it at that.

Speaker 2:

I don't use it either, but from what I've heard, so anyway, Derek, let's switch into the get ready questions. The first one is what basic money concept do you wish people knew?

Speaker 3:

I think we've already talked about it that money is a tool. It's that simple. Money is a tool. You buy a drill bit because you want to drill a hole, because, ultimately, you want to maybe hang that family portrait on the wall. You don't buy the drill bit because you want to drill bit. You buy it because it helps you do all the other things I just said. Money is the same way. Think of money as a tool to get you what you ultimately want to get.

Speaker 3:

And I think a challenge a lot of people face and I've seen is that and I don't know why I don't know if it's laziness, if it's just a lack of awareness Not a lot of people do the whole vision boarding, identifying the thing. They, they, they don't spend the time to get really deep on. Well, okay, I want to retire, Great. Well, why do you want to retire? What does that mean to you? Why is that important to you? Like really drilling down, and yes, it takes some work and thought. But you know what, when you get to your retirement years and you haven't planned for it now, you're really going to be stressing out and you can't buy a drill bit big enough to solve that problem.

Speaker 2:

That's a great quote there you can't buy a drill bit that's big enough to solve that problem, maybe on its own, that tool that's going to accomplish your job, where, if you start early, you're going to find that tool. So what is one simple thing people can do each year to set themselves up for financial success?

Speaker 3:

Well, obviously it's going to be different for everybody, but I think understanding some of the basics we've talked about. Money is the tool. Have your vision board so you know what you're aiming for. And then I also love budgeting, and maybe that's a bad term for it. But cash flow when the heck is your money coming from? Where is it going and are you being intentional about it? Intentional about it? If you can't get those basics done, then I would argue that wherever you actually end up possibly investing some of your money products, investments, whatever, really doesn't matter, because you're kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall at that point.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think that's so important for people to take a moment and, you know, think about that. You know is what? What are you doing? You can't make a plan if you don't know your resources. You know. That's that's why on a map, you know, it says hey, start here, and these are the steps to get to where you're going. But if you don't even know where you are, it's hard to find where you're going.

Speaker 3:

Oh, a throwback to MapQuest. I don't know if you remember MapQuest, where you'd have to print those directions off and they'd be sitting on the passenger seat while you're driving somewhere. I used to use those all the time for client appointments. But you're right. What's my starting point? Where do I want to go ultimately? And now I have each step on how to do that. And the same is true with our money and our future and everything. And if you don't know where you are and where you're going, then you're not going to get really anywhere probably.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, take a left is not going to help you at that point.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, okay, random.

Speaker 2:

So what is one habit that people can change when it comes to their money? A habit Boy?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it's an interesting question. What is a habit that people can change? I mean this one's been said before, but I like it. Pay yourself first instead of last. Now this is a little bit more challenging when you are like an employee collecting the W-2, but even there, something as simple as a payroll deduction to go into a retirement account. Now you're paying yourself before the money goes to Uncle Sam right and ultimately hits your bank account, and entrepreneurs or business owners have a little bit more flexibility there. But just do that first, because I mean, I go back, I love to travel, and one of the things they say on the airplane right before you take off is they do the whole you know like oxygen safety mask thing and they always say put your own mask on before assisting others.

Speaker 3:

Well, shouldn't you do that with your money? Like, if you can't take care of yourself and your family financially whether it's retirement, college, life insurance if something happens, you know God forbid. If you can't do it for yourself, how the heck are you going to help anybody else? You know it's just not possible. So it's okay to be a little bit selfish. I mean, it is your money, you're working hard for it. Change the habit, pay yourself first and then back everything else into it after that.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's awesome, that's a great tip and I think that does fit into your prior tip is being intentional, knowing where your money is going, because I think so often is people. Their workflow with their money is to put money into savings last, with whatever's left over at the end of the month after they've gone shopping, after they've gone out to eat, and all of a sudden, yeah, we don't have any money to put into our emergency fund or savings account this month because we spent it all. But maybe put that money into your emergency fund first and whatever your goal accounts are, and then take the money and spend it on whatever you want. So that's awesome advice. Totally, totally, yeah. So what money myth are you trying to break?

Speaker 3:

That money is evil. Money is not the root of all evil. People are Like a screwdriver is not evil. You know the screwdriver doesn't make the mistake, it's the person using it. So I think people, and I think if people understand that money is a tool, then they can understand how they can use it for good instead of bad. Because if we don't understand how to use a tool, bad things can happen. You could hit your thumb with the hammer Right. You could cut yourself with a saw, like bad things can happen if you are not trained on how to use the tool. So I don't believe money is evil or bad. I think that that is a myth and it's not a real or not true, but the perception could be as if we don't know how to use the tool, then it could be looked at as an evil thing. So that's what we're trying to break and we can do that through education, mindset.

Speaker 2:

you know all that kind of thing and I just want to highlight this because I think that this is so important. You need to be trained on how to use a tool so you know when we talk about things and you know investing. Some people go well, you know, I'm going to start day trading. Oh, you know, that's great. Anybody can be a day trader. But to be a successful day trader whether or not you can even be a successful day trader, which is a whole nother conversation it takes a lot of education and experience to be able to do that. But people walk into it and they go. Well, you know, this is horrible. I got, I lost all my money. Well, that's not really it. You didn't go in prepared, you wouldn't try to cook dinner without even knowing how to turn on the oven.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, there's preparation. That has to happen, and I think, unfortunately, human beings are somewhat I'm not going to use the word lazy, but we are path of least resistance focused, and because of that, we are always looking for the quicker, easier way to do something, and then we end up usually paying the price later. Right, but I think you're exactly right you have to be trained on how to use the tool. The outcome will be better if you're better at using it. It's that simple, and that could be whether you're roofing your house, fixing your car, learning how to fly a plane I mean, the list is endless. And how do you learn? Well, you can learn by reading, you can learn by doing and you can learn from others. I would argue learning from others in a situation like this is probably something you would want to pay attention to, because you don't want to make mistakes again that have the potential to be very impactful in a bad way. Right, like you, you cut your finger off with a saw. Like you aren't exactly putting that back on.

Speaker 2:

You know, maybe right, maybe you can try but you aren't exactly putting that back on you know, maybe right. Maybe, you can try, but you aren't going to forget that you know, better learn how to use the saw first, super glue and duct tape is not going to take care of that, it's not going to do it. That's awesome. So, derek, let's get out the time machine for a minute. What advice would you give your younger self If you could go back in time, knowing what you know now about money?

Speaker 3:

Oh man, there's a lot of little things, or big things, even cashflow, cashflow. Cashflow, though, is the one, and my wife and I have created a really great. It's just Excel. Don't need to get in all these crazy apps online if that's not your thing, but we have a simple cash flow worksheet we use every month, and it tallies things for the month and also gives us like an annual view. But just knowing where your money goes, like once a month, we sit down and we look at all the numbers Where's it going? Where did it come from All that kind of stuff?

Speaker 3:

And when I got my first job, all I cared about is the money getting from my paycheck into my bank account, and then I spent it, and then every month, I'd be like, wow, I don't have anything left. I don't know where it went, but I guess I got to get another paycheck now, and if you don't know where it's going, then you can't be again making good decisions with it, and I would be further ahead in life today if I had been better about managing my cashflow. And it's not a really hard thing to do. It's pretty simple Money in, money out. Where did it go? It's pretty darn simple, and I spend no more than an hour a month on it. It's not like it takes up a ton of my time, but it gives me a lot of peace of mind. I'll tell you that. So yeah, I wish 20, 30 years ago just bang me over the head with an Excel sheet Like go do this, use this thing.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome and that's great. If I say and I think the other thing you said there that's super important is that you have to go back and review the stuff. It's not set it and forget it. Everything is dynamic. Your income changes, your expenses change Maybe not on a regular basis, but they do fluctuate. And for people watching and listening, you can download a cashflow worksheet as part of the Get Ready Movement for free from my website. Awesome, so put in that plug.

Speaker 3:

Awesome. That's good. It's a great tool. It's such an easy one to use and we just give you. You should be in control of your money, just like you should be in control of that sawzall that you're using to cut a two by four Like. Don't let it control you, you need to control it. I love all the analogies of tools and working on like stuff today. That's good, makes sense.

Speaker 2:

It's just uh that's how it goes, yeah, no, I. I think those are great analogies and I think that talking about it this way helps break down some of the barriers with money. Is you know that for people to understand this, because otherwise you know it's this thing. You know where people go, gosh I. I don't know what a deductible is, or I don't know what asset allocation is is, or I don't know what asset allocation is. Geez, have I done the right asset allocation on my 401k? Instead of like, are you actually putting money in your 401k?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, let's go upstream a little bit.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly, put money in your 401k, which is what you're talking about paying yourself first. So, derek, to wrap it up, what is your number one tip on changing the way we think about money?

Speaker 3:

You know I think we've already covered it at length Money is a tool. Change your mindset on that. Don't look at it as something that you dread or that causes you stress or anxiety or that you find confusing. You can go pick up a screwdriver or a hammer and you understand that it is a tool that has a purpose. Money is the same thing and it's just a matter of controlling it. So I think that that's just what you have to do is just like what do I want in life? Okay, I want to retire. Well, when? Why is that important to me? What's it going to cost me to retire? Start getting into the weeds a little bit. Okay, I've identified where I want to be.

Speaker 3:

I have this thing called money from the income and my current assets I might have. How do I use that to drill the hole to get to my retirement? Right, it's that simple. That's how I would do it, like I'm a pretty simple guy. That's how I would think about it If I were. You know you don't overthink it. Maybe get off a tick, tock. You know, stop, there's, there's a ton of noise out there, tony, I think that's. The other thing is is that sometimes money is made to be more complex than it maybe needs to be Right. So thinking like, take it a step back, you can get, you can do pretty well just on your own by understanding some of these fundamental things.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome. Well, can I say that you nailed it.

Speaker 3:

That's a great dad joke, right there, that's awesome.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm a dad.

Speaker 3:

Oh, I love it. That is fantastic.

Speaker 2:

But I think what you said is super important is that once you know the problem that you're actually trying to solve, then you can find the right tool. You know, and that's what you've been saying all along, so I hope people take that away from this episode and that it's useful to you. So, derek, where can people learn more about you, coupler AI, and where can they connect and follow you?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I'm really active on LinkedIn, so that would be a place to go. You can, if I don't know, I think you could throw a link in the show notes for folks there, that's a great place great place to to see what I'm up to.

Speaker 3:

I do a nice blend of personal and business on there. I do a nice blend of personal and business on there. And then you can check out the Coupler website. It's just couplerai, couplerai, so some cool stuff on there. We're really excited about the stuff we're doing there as well, so feel free to go check it out. And yeah, I'm an open book, so I'm always trying to help people, you know, get a little bit better at whatever there is that they're up to. So connect with me, reach out.

Speaker 2:

Happy to chat, Fantastic and, as you mentioned and for all my listeners and viewers. As always, there will be links to connect with Derek and to check out Coupler AI's website in the show notes. So, Derek, thanks so much for joining us today on the Get Ready Money podcast.

Speaker 3:

It's a pleasure. Tony, thank you for having me and thanks everybody for listening. Really appreciate it. Hopefully you got a little chuckle out of it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely no. This has been an awesome conversation and, as always, thank you everybody for tuning in to this episode of the Get Ready Money podcast. If you learned something today, please be sure to like and subscribe to the show and to share it with a friend. You next time.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Tony Steuer

Host