The Get Ready Money Podcast

The Get Ready Money Podcast with Carolina Perez Sanz: Busting Money Ghosts

• Tony Steuer

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On the latest episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast, I spoke with Carolina Perez Sanz, author and advocate for helping people overcome under earning about changing the way we think about money and busting money ghosts.


In this episode we discussed:

  • Personal power is what allows you to trust yourself.
  • Money ghosts are behaviors that under-earners show.
  • Ask for what you’re worth. 
  • Stop undervaluing yourself, don’t work for free.
  • Money doesn’t give you power, you have your personal power. Thanks to your power, you can use money how you want. 

Connect with Carolina Perez Sanz:

Website and newsletter: (here)

LinkedIn (here) 


Book:

Stop Being Afraid of Money - coming Spring 2025


Mentioned this episode:

  • Overcoming Underearning(R): A Five-Step Plan to a Richer Life by Barbara Stanny (Amazon) https://amzn.to/45QxfML
  • You're Not for Everyone: But, You Can Be For Everyone by Kristin Andree (Amazon) https://amzn.to/3L0MTvg
  • Thinking, Fast and Slow by Daniel Kahneman (Amazon) https://amzn.to/3L4HUKm


Bio: 

Carolina Perez Sanz, PhD, CPCC, PCC is an experienced leadership coach, trainer, and consultant with over a decade of expertise in organizational coaching, corporate training, and internal communications. As the founder of Co-Lumina Coaching, Carolina has helped individuals and teams enhance their leadership presence, improve communication, and navigate organizational change. As a certified coach, she specializes in developing high-impact programs that combine professional, personal, and spiritual growth.


Beyond her coaching work, Carolina is a passionate writer, sharing insights on personal power, self-awareness, and spiritual growth. Her writing explores how what she calls Money Ghosts—an extension of the Ego—undermine personal power and keep people earning less than their potential. In her work, Carolina combines deep self-reflection with actionable strategies, helping individuals break free from limiting beliefs and embrace more authentic, empowered ways of living and leading."

Support the show

The Get Ready Money Podcast and its guests do not provide investment advice. All content is for educational purposes. Guest opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of The Get Ready Money Podcast and Tony Steuer.

Speaker 1:

Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and transform your financial future? Then you've come to the right place. This is the Get Ready Money Podcast with Tony Stewart, where Tony has insightful conversations with financial experts who are changing the way we think about money. Catch up on the latest financial trends and hear practical advice from Tony and his expert guests so you can build healthy habits that work, Be empowered with tips for implementing small changes that can have a big impact on your financial future. So sit back and get ready to hear from today's guest. So sit back and get ready to hear from today's guest.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast changing the way we think about money. I'm pleased to be joined today by Carolina Perez-Sands. Carolina is an author and advocate for helping people to overcome under-earning. In this episode, we'll be discussing Carolina's insights on how we change the way we think about money and about busting money ghosts. Carolina, welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast. Thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited about this conversation.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, me too. So let's start with you is what is your origin story?

Speaker 3:

um, how far did you want me to go back?

Speaker 3:

well, whatever you think is relevant okay, yeah, well, um, I started my career as a voice coach so I worked with people. I helped people who were professional voice users to use their voices in a way that was powerful and they sounded confident and also they they could avoid getting pathologies in their vocal folds. So I worked with a lot of tv reporters, radio commentators, teachers, actors, singers, rock and roll and nu metal singers. It was fun, so I was doing that. Then I got a PhD in voice research and that's when I started to realize that I was kind of trapped with money, because I was very famous, I was the most well-known voice coach in Madrid and I was barely making money. I mean I could, I could buy the necessary things and I was barely making money. I mean I could buy the necessary things and I could pay for the things that I needed, but I could never splurge. I never felt it was okay for me to go a little overboard, but yet I persisted in that Like, yes, I never, I never raised my, my, my prices or my rates, because I feared that my clients would start, would stop coming the public national broadcasting service in Spain. I was very famous, I wrote for the Huffington Post, and yet I persisted in that very low level income, if you want. So that's when I thought, oh, I think it's the country, because the country, like people in Spain, are very comfortable with not having a lot of money. And it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, we're all poor and nothing's wrong with that. So I thought it was the country because I wanted more money and more, you know, to build more savings and for retirement and all that.

Speaker 3:

So we moved to the US, thinking, oh, in the US, everybody makes a lot of money and you know, the streets are paved with gold. That's what we think back from Spain, right? We think back from Spain, right? And and yet, under earning followed me with that baggage and yeah. So in in New York, I started to work for a communication consulting firm. We worked with financial services as clients and and there I I was like, oh, it's possible to make more money, it's possible to have a different type of life and income.

Speaker 3:

And I started to learn about money. I started to read everything I could find about money. I subscribed to the Wall Street Journal, I read books. Well, my favorite was Danny Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow. It's not directly about money, but it's behavioral economics, right. And Richard Thaler. That's when everything started to shift for me, and then I became a coach. Everything started to shift for me so, and then I became a coach like more I do co-active coaching, which is something very internal, and I have worked with executives in companies, but also with people who needed to have a better outlook on life. So that's why I don't say it's it's not life coaching or it's not executive coaching, because it's both. It's like personal coaching, if you want, and now I'm here.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's really cool and I think you said something that I think is you know, something people struggle with is studying your rates, asking for what you're worth, and I know that you know. For women, you know it's even harder issue and we could spend the whole episode talking about that. But I think you know that that's you know valuable to ask for what you're worth and to not be scared, although it's super easy to say I know when I was consulting I had a hard time raising my rates as well. It is so hard to do. It's easy to say to get paid what you're worth, but to actually do it is. What advice would you give people to ask for what you're worth? Do you have a good tip? What you're worth.

Speaker 3:

Do you have a good tip? Well, run some calculations of really the money you need, but hard calculations like take pen and paper and calculator or spreadsheet or whatever, and be really crystal clear on exactly the numbers you need and then take it from there, because I believe that a lot of people, especially when we consult and we depend on other people buying from us, we focus on what they can pay instead of focusing on what we need in order to keep our lights on and to be alive, right? So the advice would be first, be really clear on what you need, and I would advise to do this exercise of calculating exactly what you need and then you say what you want. But I mean you can add up anything you want.

Speaker 3:

For example, I don't know if you could say the bare minimum that I need is 500, let's say. And then if I want to save money for my retirement, I need 200 more, and you know doing all those calculations. So that way it becomes oh no, it's the spreadsheet that ordered me what I want to ask, what I need to ask, right? So kind of having a boss on top of you telling you no, this is what you need to ask, or ask for yeah. So I don't know, maybe I talk too much.

Speaker 2:

Not at all, and that's actually wonderful. Advice is to focus on what you need rather than what your clients can pay, than what your clients can pay, because if it's not enough money for you to make a living and to continue your business, you can't serve anybody.

Speaker 3:

Exactly, and that's what I tell everybody. For example, I was working with a woman and she was saying oh, but I believe that everybody should have the opportunity to get my services. I think, therefore, they should be free. I shouldn't charge for them because they're good for the world, and I was telling her that exactly. Well, if you don't charge people for your services, how long are your services going to be around? They're going to disappear. And then another thing related to that is a lot of people are going to say no to you. That's fine, I mean, and they're going to say no not because of the money you're asking for, but because they don't need you or they don't see the value in your service, or whatever, but not because of the money. So that's, I think, very important also to keep in mind.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it makes me think of this book by Kristen Andre and if I'm pronouncing her notes correctly and for people watching and listening, I'll make sure I have the correct note in the book. But the title for book is you can be for everybody, but you're not for everybody. And you know, and I think that sums it up is you know your people will find you Exactly exactly, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 3:

And I've seen a lot of people, especially maybe women, who are having this internal dialogue when they're thinking about I'm going to tell my prices, I have a sales call and I will need to to tell my price. They're all the time like what if they say no? What if they say no? Thinking what does that person saying no to me say about myself? Which is the response is nothing. The person says no to you because something that they have inside, not because anything that you have right. But I think a lot of times we confound what we think the other person is going to think of us and we try to please them and we try not to be rejected and all that.

Speaker 2:

So so you know the thing, you know. I know you talk about personal power. So why is it important for people to grow their personal power?

Speaker 3:

I mean it's paramount, because without personal power, you don't. Let me rephrase that personal power is what allows you to trust yourself, to really make the decisions that you really want to make, and not somebody else, and to be sure of what you are, regardless of what other people think, right? So I divide personal power into self-leadership, self-trust and self-worth, and I think the three play a very important role together when, especially when it comes to to ask for what we want and, as you said before, to charge our worth and things like that, I don't know if it's possible to charge our worth because we could believe that as humans, we are invaluable. We don't have a price. Right Like we are invaluable, right, like we are invaluable.

Speaker 3:

So, but if we're not empowered, if I don't stand in my full power, I'm always scanning the environment for what other people are thinking about me to feel am I appropriate? I'm not, I am not. Am I not? Am I adequate? Do I fit in? And that is what decreases our, our, for example, our possibility to have an impact in the world or to make an impact and also to to be really ourselves. So for me, personal power is like boom but the most important thing in the world.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome, I love it, you know. So, I, you know you said so many great things, but you know you have to trust yourself and I think that and you know, and going back to what you said earlier is, yeah, you know, spreadsheets are not everything and numbers aren't everything, but it does give you a good idea and you know, and it gives you the confidence, or it gives you some confidence, because you still have to ask, and that is the hardest part is to have the conversation. But I love it, but the but, but, the more, as you said, is you trust yourself, the more you'll have the confidence to do these things. So that's great. So you know, a big thing that you talk about are money ghosts. What are money ghosts?

Speaker 3:

Thank you for that question. I love it. So money ghosts are behaviors that have been identified as behaviors that people who are under earners do or show or showcase Right. So we could say there are symptoms of under earning. I call them money ghosts because I thought it was a very impactful descriptor of that thing and I wanted to bypass the idea that people, if you tell somebody I think you're an under earner, they might be like what, what are you telling me that I'm not an under earner? And they will feel very bad. But if you say, oh, maybe you have some money ghosts, they could think, oh, yeah, I may have some money ghosts. So that's why I use this terminology. So the money ghosts are 12 symptoms that all the under earners show and do and incur in, if you want, and they're very interesting because some of them seem like they are not directly related to money. But we do them because we are under earners and because we have this mentality that we don't deserve more things or better things and therefore we stick with that behavior or with that symptom and some, as I said, may not seem related to money immediately.

Speaker 3:

For example, the first one is time indifference. I know in this culture, we always say time is gold, right, or time is money. So we have drawn a direct, more or less direct. We have drawn a direct, more or less direct parallel between time and money, but the fact that under earners are time indifferent shows up in different ways. For example, somebody says, yes, someday I will be rich. Okay, someday. When is that someday? Well, I don't know. I'm not going to put a date, because if I put a date, then I will be accountable for my actions and whatever. So that is the type of floppiness around time. Or, for example, someday, yes, I'm going to be rich in two years. What am I doing today to take a step towards being rich? Well, I don't know, because I still have a lot of time. It's two years, right. So nothing today. But if we don't take the step today, we won't take the step tomorrow, and so that is the link between time indifferent and money Money ghost.

Speaker 3:

There's another money ghost that I really love, which is clinging to useless possessions, and I think that was also raised at as sunk costs by, for example, richard Taylor. So this idea that because I spent a lot of money in this thing, I refuse to let it go or let go of it and that shows up in, for example, of course, clothing. I bought a pair of pants when I was 17, and I'm so proud that I still fit in them that I keep them okay 34 years later. Or something right Ridiculous 34 years later. Or something right Ridiculous. And it also shows up in behaviors, for example, like I am used to doing this thing so, even though it doesn't bring me anything in return, I keep doing it because I have that money ghost, so I cling to useless possessions or things or businesses. Or I keep doing it because it takes less effort to keep doing something that I've always done than to change and do something different.

Speaker 2:

I've always done than to change and do something different. I love that because I think that is a behavior that we get in the habit of doing certain things, especially with our money, and you know we're like, oh well, you know I've been doing this forever and, like you know, I was an insurance consultant and I'd see that sometimes with people with these expensive all life insurance policies, I'm like we don't really need it and I'm like I've been paying all these years and it's like, well, that doesn't matter. You should really be thinking about whether you need it or not. Rather than you know is this product good or bad? It's like, well, does it fit your goals Exactly? I love that because money goes through, something that we all deal with. Yeah, and understanding what they are is the first step to addressing them. Yeah, you know you've got a book coming up that you're in the process of writing. Yeah, and I know it's coming out next year. But you know what inspired you to write your book? Stop being Afraid of Money. But you know what?

Speaker 3:

inspired you to write your book Stop being Afraid of Money. So One day in March of 2023, I think, yeah, in 2023, I heard this term under earner. Like I listened to listening to a podcast, I heard Barbara Stanny, barbara Hewson, now speak about her book, overcoming Under Earning, and I was very curious, very intrigued and I I said to myself, oh, I think I am an under earner. It immediately spoke to me. So I bought her book book and I started to read a lot of books about money and manifesting and all these things like, uh yeah, about my relationship with money. And I was writing in a community of writers and I started to write there about my relationship with money and all those beliefs about money and myself, because, of course, the money ghosts inform us of our self-worth.

Speaker 3:

Like, because we have the money ghosts, we believe we are worth less than what we are and the money goes, of course yeah, the money ghosts come from how we were treated as young children and, of course, most of our caregivers were very well-intentioned and they didn't realize that this backhanded comment or this look on their faces or whatever we took as, oh, that means I'm worthless, or that means I don't matter, or that means everything that I wish for, I need, or anything, doesn't matter, it has to be ignored.

Speaker 3:

But that's another thing. So I started to write about those, those appreciations and those observations about me growing up as a child with my parents in Spain and then me when, when I started my business in Spain always undercharging, under, always like shooting myself on the foot in terms of pricing and all that and I saw that everything that I wrote was resonating with a lot of people and they were like, oh yeah, this has happened to me too. Oh, oh, that's so insightful. Yes, I've always I've also had that type of feelings, and so I was writing a memoir back then and I decided, okay, the money is exactly going to be the line through in the memoir. And then I shifted even more and instead of you know, because it was a memoir about me like author centered, and then I said, no, no, I want to help people overcome these self-limiting beliefs. So I'm going to make it like a teachable memoir, if you want, or a teaching memoir which is more about tools and frameworks to really get rid of those money ghosts.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome. I'm excited to see it and for people who are watching and listening, you know the show notes will be updated when the book is released. And also, carolina, I'll feature the book in my newsletter so people who subscribe to my newsletter will find out when the book is out. So excited to see it, congratulations. Writing a book is definitely not an easy task, but I think these are conversations that people need to be aware of, because if you can't conquer the money ghost, knowing what type of investments is useless, so you have to start at the beginning. So let's switch gears and get into the get ready money questions. The first one is what basic money concept do you wish people knew?

Speaker 3:

what basic money concepts. I don't know. You caught me off guard. I would say, going back to what I said in the beginning when you asked me, what piece of advice would I give to somebody to ask for to charge for what they I mean realistically in what they need, according to what they need, I would say understanding your real needs in terms of money is super important and I think that a lot of people are very they play fast and lose with numbers and they're like oh yeah, well, I need around X amount of dollars every month, but they don't really know exactly. So maybe they're. I don't know what you think of that, but there are a lot of people who advocate for having a little spending record or tracker and planning the expenses and how you're going to spend your money in the next month and all that. So I don't know. Is that a basic concept?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that is a basic concept and I think it's something. As you point out, people don't know their numbers. If you don't know your numbers and your resources, it's going to be really hard to make sound financial decisions. That doesn't mean you have to have a strict budget, but you have to know what your income is. You have to know where you're spending your money so that you can make changes if you need to make changes. Or you know, as you point out, use it to ask for what you're worth, either in salary or if you're consulting or whatever, but also see how much you know. Maybe we don't have enough money to go on this fancy vacation this year. Maybe we go on a fancy vacation every other year, but if you don't know your numbers, you're going to find yourself in debt. You're going to find yourself not saving enough money for your goals. So that's wonderful advice. I love it. Okay, great, thank you, yeah. So the next one is what is one simple thing you can do each year to set yourself up for financial success?

Speaker 3:

no idea. I mean all that. We have been talking about knowing your numbers and knowing your goals, but I would say I mean for me, saving, like um saving and investing right. I I very much believe in doing both things, but each year, yeah, I would maybe set a target like this. For example right now I have a target this is what I want to save every month, because this is what I want to have saved at the end of the year, and this is what I want to have saved at the end of the year and this is what I want to have invested right. So, set a very clear number of what I want to have saved, which also will inform the money that I need to ask for If I'm a salaried person or a consultant. That will inform also what I what I need to charge yeah, no, that's awesome.

Speaker 2:

Review your goals periodically and see if you're on target exactly yeah you know, I think sometimes people miss that it's a very basic concept, um, but you know we blow by it because we get busy, um. So for people who are watching and listening, this is the plug for the Get Ready Money Club, my free program, where you get one weekly action item to remind you of these things. So I'd urge you, if you're not subscribed to my newsletter, to check it out. Join the Get Ready Money Club. So that's my plug.

Speaker 1:

Next question.

Speaker 2:

What is one habit that people can change when it comes to their money?

Speaker 3:

one habit pay their credit card in full at the end of the month, at the end of the billing period full at the end of the month, at the end of the billing period.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, in full. I think that is such a valuable habit is to do. It is credit card debt is some of the most expensive debt that you can carry. So you know, my advice to further on is that is to rank all your debt and see what your most expensive debt is. So if you're not able to pay off all of your credit card in full because maybe you have too much credit outstanding, is to go out. Prioritize which credit cards cost you the most money. Pay those off first until you get to a point where you can pay all your credit cards in full. But I would say this is a money ghost. Sometimes people go well, it's just too much. I can't do it. I'm struggling with this credit card debt. I don't know where to go.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, but I mean, my advice was more if you use your credit card one month, at the end of that month you have to pay it, and if you don't, that means you didn't have the money that you spent, so don't spend it.

Speaker 2:

Don't spend money you don't have. Exactly that is wonderful advice and it's so easy to do. I mean, that's the whole point of credit cards to get you to spend money you don't have.

Speaker 3:

Yes, and I think we're in this country. We're really trapped by everything credit right. For example, when I came to this country 10 years ago, I didn't have. In Spain. I had had one credit card, I think, and I barely used it because it's not. At least, back then it was not very common for Spaniards to have credit cards. We, we had our bank accounts and a debit card and that's it. But when I came here, every and I wanted to pay cash or debit, people were like, no, you need a credit card. What for? Well, because, because, because, right like this is, this is the country of credit cards, and if you don't have credit cards, then you don't have credit and then people don't rent you, or it's very difficult to exist in this country without credit cards.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, I think it's a very good plot that they have yeah, no, and and this is a line through to your basic money concept is, you know, to know your numbers, so you know how much you can spend, and to be intentional with your spending. That's wonderful advice. So the next one is about money myths. What money myth are you trying to break?

Speaker 3:

I don't know. I mean, what's the difference between money myths and money ghosts? Well, money ghosts.

Speaker 2:

You know, because a money ghost is sort of like a money myth, you know. So a money myth, you know, um. So you know what. You know what is the big one that you wish people changed or?

Speaker 3:

you'd love to change. I would love for people to first stop being afraid of money and really dive into money like money is nothing if you don't give it meaning.

Speaker 3:

So it's not a scary thing unless you have a lot of money ghosts that make it scary for you. But I would love for people to stop undervaluing themselves and therefore underpricing their services or their work as salaried people, because I believe that that's very, very, very pervasive. So it's so difficult, right, because you don't ask for what you want, or there are not jobs available for some people to to have the income they need. And then we're all the time bombarded by oh, go on a cruise, take this vacation, buy this amazing car, and you know we, we need to consume, to be a citizen, right, and at the same time, it's very difficult for us to to to ask for what we want. So it's a, it's a tension that occurs there and I would say first, stop undervaluing yourself. So if they offer you a job that doesn't allow you to meet your needs, your basic needs, don't take that job, because if you take that job, you're going to end up using credit and that's not going to help you. So, yeah, that's.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome advice. You know, ask for what you want, um. So, carolina, let's, let's get out the time machine for a minute. What advice would you give your younger self if you go back in time, knowing what you know now about money?

Speaker 3:

I mean, I would sit her down for two days in a row telling her everything that she doesn't have to do. The first thing I did out of college. You're going to be shocked, and I think many people are going to be shocked. I worked for free, without pay, for five years out of college because oh no, I was volunteering, I was learning my skills, I was getting experience and I worked without pay for five years in a public hospital.

Speaker 2:

Wow.

Speaker 3:

And then I did at the same time. I was doing an internship in a clinic, also without pay, for two years. So for two of those five years I worked full-time without pay, and the rest, the other three, three I started my own business, so I worked in the money in the morning at the hospital for nothing, zero. And then I had my my own clinic where, of course, I undercharged because I didn't want people to say oh no, it's so expensive. So that the first advice would be never work for free, like never in your life work for free. And I know that there has been a lot of debate here in the US with internships and some people have been saying if you go into a non-paid internship, you are showing your privilege because you can't afford working for free.

Speaker 2:

I hadn't thought about it that way, but that is 100% accurate.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so if you have somebody who pays for your rent or if you have rich parents, of course you can go into non-paid work. You can volunteer here and there. That's awesome, very good for the planet, maybe, but it it deepens the the the mentality of the under earner, because it should be illegal to work for free.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I agree with you. I hadn't thought about it from the privilege standpoint, but that's 100% accurate. But yeah, it does contribute to that mindset that your work value is zero. Exactly Because you're not getting paid, so that's awesome advice. So, carolina, to wrap up, what is your number one tip on changing the way we think about money?

Speaker 3:

The number one tip in changing the way we think about money. As I said before, money doesn't have power or money doesn't give you power. You have your personal power and and thanks to your power, you can use your money in the way you want, right? So the tip would be don't yeah, don't be afraid of money and don't don't see money as as an entity that you can't start to. I don't know. Like see money as a tool, because it's a tool, right? Like don't see money as evil or good or dangerous or whatever. Money doesn't corrupt. What corrupts is the power that that one has, the overpower that one can have if they use the money to buy favors and to buy people. But money in itself doesn't corrupt, because you see a lot of people who are extremely wealthy, who are super humble and very good citizens, and they help the world and they do amazing things with the money. So it's not the money that is evil.

Speaker 2:

I love it and people have heard this from other guests before. The same message is money is just a tool and it's understanding how to use the tool that helps you be successful. And you know and you've given us great tips through the show, so that's a wonderful tip. So where can people learn more about you? Find out when you're up to what you're up to, and find out when your book's coming out.

Speaker 3:

Well, I am not very active on LinkedIn lately because I believe I mean I've been a little burned out with LinkedIn. I was posting all the time. So I have decided I still can be found on LinkedIn, but I have decided to start a newsletter, an email newsletter. So I would be very happy to have people find me there, find me there and if they want to subscribe to the newsletter, they can find out in real time what I'm working one working with or on in terms of the book well and for everybody watching and listening, I'll make sure there's a link to Carolina's newsletter so you can be sure to check it out and subscribe to her newsletter.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, that's awesome. So, Carolina, thanks again for joining us today on the Get Ready to Learn podcast.

Speaker 3:

It was a pleasure, such a fun conversation. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it was awesome. Thank you for sharing your insights and thank you everyone for tuning into this episode of the Get Ready Money podcast. If you learned something today to change the way you think about money, please be sure to subscribe and share with a friend. Until next time, let's change the way we think about money.

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