The Get Ready Money Podcast
The Get Ready! Money Podcast with Tony Steuer features insightful conversations with financial experts who are changing the way we think about money. Listen each week to catch up on the latest financial trends and hear practical advice from Tony and his expert guests aimed at demystifying the complexities of finance, so you can build healthy habits that ACTUALLY work.
Each episode will leave you with tips for implementing small changes that can have a big impact on your financial future. Tony’s podcast is perfect for listeners seeking to get ready, be prepared, and transform their financial future.
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The Get Ready Money Podcast
Mom and Dad, What’s Your Plan?
On this episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast, I was joined by Cameron Huddleston, author and Director of Education at Carefull; Pam Ostrowski, Dementia Caregiving Speaker, Consultant and Author; and Ruschelle Khanna, author and fractional learning officer to talk about Mom and Dad, What’s the Plan?
Here are some key insights:
- Conversations need to happen sooner, rather than later - not in an emergency
- Come from a place of collaboration
- Emotions have to be dealt with first, the conversation has to be normalized
- How to start the conversation, even with someone who doesn’t want to have it.
- We need to communicate to protect our needs and dignity.
Cameron Huddleston is the author of "Mom and Dad, We Need to Talk: How to Have Essential Conversations With Your Parents About Their Finances." She is an award-winning journalist who has been writing about personal finance for more than 20 years. She also was a caregiver for more than 12 years for her mom, who had Alzheimer's disease. Cameron is currently the director of education and content at Carefull, the first service built to organize and protect the daily finances of older adults.
Pam Ostrowski, CSA, CDP, CDC is a Dementia Caregiving Speaker, Consultant and Author of "It's Not That Simple: Helping Families Navigate the Alzheimer's Journey,". Dementia caregiving coach and guide, Pam Ostrowski, provides a path to relieve the fear, anxiety, and confusion that family members experience when a loved one is diagnosed with dementia. Pam is the founder of Alzheimer’s Family Consulting. She is also the author of the highly rated Alzheimer’s guidebook, "It's Not That Simple: Helping Families Navigate the Alzheimer's Journey," which is based on Pam’s 14-year dementia and Alzheimer’s journey with her parents. She works with organizations such as financial advisors and long-term care professionals to educate them on the need for more client conversations on aging well and planning for possible later-in-life cognitive impairment.
Ruschelle Khanna, LCSW is an Advisor and Therapist for High Net Worth Females & Families. Ruschelle specializes in helping leaders and teams develop high EQ skills to effectively blend strategic thinking, creative problem solving and effective communication. She serves as a Fractional Learning Officer for families in enterprise. Ruschelle is a Gottmann Method Facilitator. She was formerly the Clinical Director at Samaritan Daytop Village.
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The Get Ready Money Podcast and its guests do not provide investment advice. All content is for educational purposes. Guest opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of The Get Ready Money Podcast and Tony Steuer.
Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and transform your financial future? Then you've come to the right place. This is the Get Ready Money Podcast with Tony Stewart, where Tony has insightful conversations with financial experts who are changing the way we think about money. Catch up on the latest financial trends and hear practical advice from Tony and his expert guests so you can build healthy habits that work, Be empowered with tips for implementing small changes that can have a big impact on your financial future. So sit back and get ready to hear from today's guest.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast, changing the way we think about money. I'm pleased to be joined today by Cameron Hedleston, pam Ostrowski and Rochelle Kanna. In this episode, we'll be discussing mom and dad what's the plan? Welcome everyone to the Get Ready Money podcast. Thanks for being here today.
Speaker 3:Thank you, donnie, thank you.
Speaker 2:Excited to get into this conversation. So you know, let's start off with a little bit of a quick round of introductions, a little bit about you, your origin story and your connection to later in life planning and communication.
Speaker 4:Pam, you want to kick off? Sure, I'd be happy to. First of all, thanks for the opportunity and hello listeners, because it is so important that you're here today. We actually I have a company called Alzheimer's Family Consulting, and it's all based on my 14 year journey with my parents, who had the best plan, tony it was they're going to die in their sleep, they own their condo and they were going to live there forever Medicare Tricare for life. We're going to take care of all of their medical expenses and any military support that dad and her mom needed, and, you know, basically they were going to live happily ever after until they passed.
Speaker 4:What happened was mom got dementia and had it for 14 years before she passed. Dad had vascular dementia towards the end, and so we had to have this financial conversation. Well, we started it when I was 16, actually because my parents were planners but the whole story changed in 2001 when mom started showing signs of dementia. So that's kind of my story, and my passion is having the right documents in place, having talking about money, because you know, with the statistics the way they are, it's not given that everyone will get dementia by any means. However, brain health is so important and you know, we need to have the money plan to make sure that if we do need assistance in home care, for instance, that we have the financial means to do it, rather than being a financial burden to our families and and others. So that's my background.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, rochelle.
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah, so I am a psychotherapist of over 20 years and I've kind of worked in the realm of family transitions and death and loss and succession planning, as I've worked with high net worth families as well, and when I stepped into that I realized that my family experience was very different from a lot of other families because my family also were planners. Dad had a plan. Dad was an old dad. He was in his 40s when he had me and my sister and so he was always very aware of his mortality and he wanted us to be prepared. So he was very meticulous about making sure that we had conversations and that those were normalized. So when I stepped into working with families, I realized that that is not the norm. So my word of the day is normalized. So let's kind of normalize the fact that we will age and transition and eventually die and that we need a solid plan for that.
Speaker 5:Cameron not die and that we we need a solid plan for that. Cameron hi, tony hi, rochelle hi, pam hi, everyone who's listening. I, um, I am a long time personal finance journalist. I wrote a book called mom and dad. We need to talk how to have essential conversations with your parents about their finances.
Speaker 5:And I was a caregiver for 12 years for my mom who had Alzheimer's disease Rochelle. My dad did not plan, even though he was an attorney. He died at the age of 61 without a will in a second marriage, so that threw all of us for a loop. And then a few years later, my mom was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease. Again, there was no plan there, and it wasn't necessarily for a lack of planning.
Speaker 5:I had had a conversation with her before she was diagnosed about looking into long-term care insurance, but she couldn't get it because of another pre-existing condition that she had that made her too high risk. But I dropped the ball. I didn't realize that was the perfect opportunity to have a conversation with her about what sort of care she would want, how she would pay for that care, and to discuss her finances. It wasn't until I started getting involved that those conversations happened and that's what prompted me to write a book is to warn people. These conversations can't wait until there's a health emergency, because at that point it can be too late. So I'm really, I'm really excited that we're talking about this today. I'm so passionate about this topic and I'm really excited to hear what you, pam, and what you, rochelle, have to say. I think this is going to be great.
Speaker 5:Gosh that's great, and I love.
Speaker 2:You know I'm already taking notes of, you know, highlights of what you all have said. Brain health is so important. We need to normalize fact and we can't wait on these conversations. You know, I mean just there we have. You know, we could probably talk for the next half hour, but you know, let's back up a little bit and talk for people you know about the importance. Let's go a little bit deeper on that. Why is it important to have a conversation from both the perspective of the parent and the adult child? Because everybody is coming from a really different place. Rochelle, you want to kick in on this?
Speaker 3:Sure. So my take on why it's important is kind of comes from the perspective of nonviolent communication. So in the theory of nonviolent communication we all have these universal needs and those needs are respect and understanding and empathy and freedom and all the things that come up at the at the end of life. You know, mom and dad don't want to lose their, they don't want to lose their maybe role at work, they don't want to lose their home. So freedom is a big one meaning in your life. So if we don't communicate then we can't protect these universal human needs that we all have for, for dignity and respect at the end of life.
Speaker 4:And I think the other aspect of that is run into because I do dementia care consulting. So I will meet with a child who says adult child who says mom doesn't, mom doesn't want to talk about it, Dad doesn't want to talk about it. And it can be a cultural reason, or it can be our businesses, our business, kids, you don't need to know what our business is. And it's like, well, yeah, I kind of do, because who's your backup? We are, you know, we the adult children are. And then I have parents this, this one shocked me Parents who say, okay, kids, we need to have this conversation. No, no, no, You're going to live forever. And it's like, okay, no, you're not.
Speaker 4:But but they, the adult children, don't want to have the conversation because they're so entwined with the parents' lives and to even think about losing that individual is so heartbreaking and it's like, all right, we need to work through those emotions, guys, because these are conversations. I totally agree with you, Michelle, and with you, Cameron, about these. Conversations have to be had and I'm so glad that we're doing this to try to get that message out to both adult children and to parents, the older loved ones, to have this conversation, Because resisting it doesn't make it go away. You know, burying your head in the sand doesn't help in the long term. As a matter of fact, it's a bigger burden and a lot more stress, a lot more expensive and a lot scarier when you don't have a plan.
Speaker 5:I would agree with what they both said 100%, and I would add that one of the big benefits of having these conversations sooner rather than later is ensuring that essential legal documents are in place so that the parent has named an adult child, another trusted family member, as their agent under power attorney, to make financial decisions for them if they can't. To name someone as the health care surrogate to make medical decisions for them if they can't. To make sure they have some sort of will or trust that spells out who gets what when they die an advance directive, that? Or living will that says what sort of end-of-life medical care they do or do not want. And this is for the parents. This is about control. You want to make these decisions. You want to decide who's making financial and medical decisions for you. If you can't, while you're still healthy and competent, to make those decisions, if these documents aren't in place, then something happens Family member or friend is going to have to go to court, essentially put you on trial to prove that you are no longer competent to manage your affairs, to manage your health care, and you're going to have to. You know that person's going to have to be named your conservator guardian. That costs money, it tears families apart and that can be avoided with some planning. You know, and I know, even if you don't end up needing any sort of long-term care and someone doesn't have to help manage your finances for you to make health care decisions, we're all going to die. We cannot escape that.
Speaker 5:And I know plenty of families. They don't have wills and they think, well, my kids get along, they're going to work it out. And that's often not the case. Once money comes into play, people get greedy. People will fight over the smallest things. And if you've got those wishes in writing, then that's going to reduce those fights. It doesn't eliminate them entirely. I mean, there are some families where, even if there's a will, a trust, people are still going to fight it, you know, because they think they deserve more than their brother or sister. But for the most part, if there is something in writing, it will reduce the fighting, reduce the cost and it just makes it easier for your children. It's like a gift to them. They're grieving and they don't want to have to make those decisions and so if you've made it for them, then they can just simply honor your wishes and I think that's so important your wishes and I think I think that's so important.
Speaker 4:Well said, cameron. I, I, you know it's one of those things where, sitting on the other side, I I'm. First of all, I'm grateful, much like Rochelle, that I had older parents who were planners. But I want my clients' families are all the time saying, well, my sister doesn't want to do this, or my other brother doesn't want to do that, or you have to get five siblings together in order to have the conversation. Then there's disgruntlement and one thing that you mentioned about the healthcare power of attorney, a durable power of attorney. I always advise that you have named two people, because it could be that the first one says either something happens to them or they're in a situation where they can no longer act as primary. Then your secondary can show up and and fill that that that void. So yeah, I love what you said about getting all those things in line. We in the majority of the of Americans don't have them in place, which is scary, and I think this is.
Speaker 3:This is I'm sorry. Go ahead, tony. Oh no, no, I was just going to say.
Speaker 2:You know, just to reiterate a couple things that you both said is one the plan has to be in writing. Two, you have to tell people that the plan exists and you have to have a contingent plan.
Speaker 3:You know, those are just such important points, contingent plan, you know, those are just such important points and I was just going to add if you if you the listener or some are an aware family member knowing that denial is not the best approach to you, know transitions in your family, then sometimes it's really helpful to bring in a third party or set up a family meeting and start that conversation trying to break down the denial and the rest of the family system, because that's really the. I also just wrote a book about inherited trauma and money and the reason why I wrote the book. Well, first of all, I didn't know how this was going to work, because the book was for families who are in denial and I was like, well, okay, nobody's going to buy this book, because if you're in denial, you're not looking for a resource like this. So it's really the one catalyst family member who is aware who can come in and change the system.
Speaker 4:It's funny that you say that, because my book is actually we need to package them together and sell them Because mine's called. It's Not that Simple Helping families navigate the Alzheimer's journey. This isn't simple. We're not saying it's simple, we're saying that you have to, and I love the idea of the third party coming in, because we have objective opinions and objective experience that allows us to facilitate and take the bite out of some of those family dynamics. So another great point yeah, I love that bringing in a third party, because we also have defined relationships that sometimes may not be open to communication.
Speaker 2:So you know the next question, and, cameron, this is right up the alley with your book Mom and Dad, we Need to Talk. How do you start the conversation when you've decided like, hey, we need to talk?
Speaker 5:One of the first things that I suggest people do is, if you have siblings, talk with them before you go. Talk to mom and dad. Because if you start that conversation on your own and your sister gets a call from mom a couple of weeks later and mom is telling her hey, I just talked to your sister and we were talking about our estate plan and whatever else, then your sister I just talked to your sister and we were talking about our estate plan and whatever else, then your sister, you're going to get a call from your sister saying wait, what's going on? You're talking to mom without me and then there might be suspicion, there might be resentment, they might think that you're going behind their backs so that you can get in good with mom and dad and get everything when they die. And you want to avoid that. And so you want to talk to your siblings and figure out okay, who's going to initiate the conversation? Is it one of you or all of you? When do you want to start the conversation and how are you going to start the conversation? And I usually tell people that right in the middle of a holiday meal is not a good time to have the conversation, because those holiday meals can be stressful. There might be people there who don't need to be part of the conversation. Of course, if someone's been drinking too much, then that conversation is going to go downhill very quickly, and so you're going to find another time.
Speaker 5:Maybe you know, if you're together on the holidays, the least you could do is suggest to your parents hey, let's find a time when we all can sit down together, when we're not rushed, and have some conversations, and you can start it in a variety of ways. If you're still relatively young, you can go to your parents for advice, because that avoids the role reversal Mom and dad, I just got married. Should I have life insurance? Should I have a will? And their answers are going to give you clues as to what sort of planning they've done. And then you keep asking more questions.
Speaker 5:If you are middle-aged, if you're in your forties, your fifties, you've got a story I can guarantee you. You know someone who's been involved with their parents' finances, and so it could be a cautionary tale of what this other person did wrong and how you think maybe your family can do it better with planning. Or maybe you share a tale about someone who's you know, who had conversations with their parents, and when the parent needed long-term care, they had a plan in place and it made it easier to deal with that difficult conversation. You can, if you're working with a financial advisor, or if you've met with an attorney recently yourself, you can share that experience and say hey, I just met with an attorney to update my estate planning documents. I want to know, I want you to know, where mine are. By the way, do you have these documents? Where can I find them?
Speaker 5:Again, bringing in that third party if you have to, if you think your parents are going to be reluctant to talk, and maybe that's a family friend, another family member, a counselor, someone you know, a member of your place of worship, a legal professional, maybe even a family doctor. There are lots of ways to start the conversation. Naturally, the thing is you need to start them early, while your parents are still relatively young and healthy. If one approach doesn't work, then you're gonna try another approach and you're gonna keep trying and slowly chipping away until you kind of find a way to get your foot in the door and get your parents comfortable with sharing some information with you. And it's not just one conversation, it's a series of conversations.
Speaker 4:And they shouldn't be very long. That was the other thing that you know. Someone said oh well, we sat around the table and talked for two and a half hours and I said why they were probably done after 30 minutes and you just prolonged it and made it an agonizing conversation versus something that all right. Well, we'll touch on this in, you know, the next time we talk. You know the key is to get it started and then continue on with multiple conversations.
Speaker 4:I always say 45 minutes and, especially if you have someone who has cognitive impairment, you want to make sure that that's more like 30 minutes, because that individual is really struggling to process information. And also, you want to be patient, talk slower, give people a chance to respond and, as an adult child, I think I did this wrong, which is the reason why I wrote my book is because I learned a lot from the mistakes I made, but being able to say, not I want you to or you need to, but exactly what you said, cameron, which is hey, I know someone, you know a neighbor or a friend or whatever I was talking to, so-and-so, to give them something relatable that doesn't make it just about them and you telling them what they need to do, because it does exactly that. It creates that role reversal and a lot of angst, and then that pushes them to denial or resistance. And now you've defeated the purpose of trying to have the conversation. So you're spot on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well these are great tips and you know um cameron.
Speaker 2:Your book has some conversation starters, if I recall correctly, right it does 10 to be awesome, awesome and so, uh, for everybody watching and listening, as always, there will be links to everyone's books in the show notes, so you'll be able to pick up a copy of Pam's book, rochelle's book and Cameron's book if you want to go further. So you know. The next thing is you know, let's go deeper on that. What should you cover in the conversation?
Speaker 4:Well, it kind of depends on what you've teed up. But from my perspective, when you're talking about planning long-term planning I call it later in life, because everybody's got a later in life as opposed to saying, oh well, you're going to end up in independent living, my parents did not want anybody in their house, so that kind of got rid of any in-home care options, and so you know being able to say, well, okay, what are the situations and what are the things that you consider triggers for the next step? And then let's define what that next step is for those wishes, and that's where you can have multiple conversations. So I found that that's, that's and that's.
Speaker 4:You know, what I recommend too with my conversation starters is is being able to respect each other and let everybody speak, but also to make sure that it's not about it's. It's about the people um, your parents in this case, if you're an adult child, or the parents trying to get the adult children to understand look, we need this and this conversation, we want to have it and we want to have it with you. So, trying to be very open and emotionally reasonable and being able to have that conversation at a calm, you know, like you said not, you know, not during the holidays, when everybody's anxious and you know. So that to me is the most important thing is being able to have a calm conversation and make it a mature conversation.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 5:I have a few more things and I don't want to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go for it.
Speaker 5:If Rochelle has anything to say, I'm sure she does. But in addition to that long-term care conversation, you know if you can find out some basic information. What are your retirement plans? What are your sources of income in retirement? How do you pay your bills? I don't need to know. You know specifically how much is in your retirement savings or how much your bills are each month. But are you paying them by check or are they set up to be paid automatically? And this is part of emergency planning.
Speaker 5:If a parent, for example, has a stroke, you're in the hospital. You need to know are the bills being paid by check? If so, can someone sign the check while your parent is in the hospital? How can we make sure someone sign the check while your parent is in the hospital? You know how can we make sure the lights stay on in your parents house.
Speaker 5:So finding out what bills they have to pay, you know, really, the more details that you can get, the better, because at some point you're going to need that information. You're going to need all the information at some point, whether you have to step in as a caregiver or when your parents pass away and you have an estate to settle. I know a lot of people would be reluctant to give all the nitty-gritty details. You know how many people want their kids to know how much debt they have or how much is in the checking account, and so something that you can do is ask your parents, instead of telling you, is to write this information down. Make a list of your financial accounts, make a list of your assets. You know, provide your usernames and passwords. I need that social security number, your medicare number. Tell me where that list is and how and when I can access it, and this lets them keep control if they're not comfortable sharing a lot of information with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 5:And that's what my father's done.
Speaker 2:He's like you know. He uses that generation where he doesn't really want to talk about it, but he's prepared a packet of all that information.
Speaker 5:So and that's great for you, Tony. You got it.
Speaker 2:Exactly and if I need it, hopefully well, I mean sooner or later, like we've been talking about. I am going to need it, but hopefully that data is still a long way away. Rochelle, you have anything you want to throw in here?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So Pam and Cameron have really been talking about the logical kind of front brain things that need to happen, and I'll just kind of back up a bit about the, the kind of emotional brain barriers to being able to do that. So if we're not emotionally in a good place, it's it's resistance across the board to have those conversations. And one. One question that kind of came up even from our last discussion was maybe asking your parents what their inheritance experience was like. What was their, the loss of their parents like? What was it like going through the assets with their siblings? And so there could be some clues there about maybe why they don't want to talk about certain things and trying to be empathetic toward any hurt that they had. Well, you know, I'm not going to tell you anything because me and my siblings haven't spoken in 30 years because after mom died, you know.
Speaker 3:I don't want that to happen to you and your and your brother or something like that. So checking the family inheritance kind of narrative is one place to start. And then in terms of the data, the passwords and everything like that I don't know what these are, but I know that there are programs out there, or even you know if you put the passwords with the lawyer or write them all down just so that in the event when they're no longer here, they have access to them. So those were just a couple of things that I was thinking as well.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Well, I'm going to give a shout out to my book Get Ready, which has all the space to inventory everything and keep track of it. On my website People can access you know what complimentary worksheets to work along with that to inventory all this stuff. And then you keep your copy to get ready. You know, keep it in a safe or wherever you want to or give it to your kids. But you know, lock that information. Um cameron is, um does careful, have anything along those lines?
Speaker 5:we do. Careful is the, the company I work for. It is a financial safety service that was built to protect older adults finances and to support coordination with their family members, with a trusted contacts feature. We do have a vault, which is where it's a digital safe deposit box, essentially, where you can store those documents, you can store passwords. We are in the process of creating a legacy kit that will make all of this really easy to hand over all of this information to a person you name at the time of death, and so that's something that's in the works with careful. But right now we do have that ball that's accessible, you know, and accessible, and, like Rochelle mentioned, there's services like 1Password where you can use and give someone access to passwords if you want to. So there are services out there. But even if you have a list, putting it someplace safe and telling the kids where to find that can be one way to deal with this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and now if you have an Apple product running the latest operating system, on the iPhone and the Mac operating system, there is the ability to share your passwords with a trusted contact. Well, not right away, but it can be triggered if something happens to you. That's built into the Apple operating system. So there's no cost if you're running Apple products highly confidential. I don't work for Apple.
Speaker 2:This is not an advertisement for Apple, but just saying that it's a cool new feature that you can use, and my wife and I have set it up because even between spouses, if something happens to one of us, it's like, okay, I don't know all her passwords, she doesn't know all her passwords, she doesn't all know mine, because I'm like most people, I probably have thousands of passwords out there for different things. So, yeah, there's some great tools. I'll have a link, of course, for everybody watching and listening to Careful's website so you can check out what they're up to as well. So I think you know to. Probably this is the last question we want to kick around, but you know, let's go deeper on the difficult emotions and the barriers to having these conversations. How do you deal with parents who don't want to have these conversations, those difficult emotions? How do you get around that? I mean Rochelle.
Speaker 3:I'll jump in first. Yeah, so what? What I teach, what I teach advisors and families is the use of getting individuals to move out of denial and into contemplating and then into action on a certain behavior. So the whole framework was put together to help people move through changing from like cigarette smoking, things like that. So there is language that can be used toward if some, if your family member, is in denial, there's specific language that can be used to address the denial. That pretty much works every time. If they're, if they're in contemplation, if they're kind of well, you know, I don't know, maybe we'll write a will, or maybe I will put the house in a trust, a living will, instead of just a will. If they're kind of contemplating these things, then there's also language that you can use to kind of move them into action, them into action.
Speaker 3:And so, for example, denial is the one that people. They don't like to hear this answer. This is the least favorite. If somebody's in denial, I don't want to talk about it, I don't want to talk about it. You usually first respond with that's completely fine, you don't have to talk about it. And then families will say how is that helpful? That pretty much shuts the conversation down. Well, you don't leave it there.
Speaker 3:You allow them to not have the conversation. And then you kind of talk around other things like well, when you're ready, you use assumptive statements. That is more from hypnosis, conversational hypnosis. You use assumptive statements. That is more from hypnosis, conversational hypnosis. You use statements like you know, when you're ready to help us, help us plan for your longevity, or you know, when you feel excited about the next phase in your life, or those sorts of things, then we are here to help. Is it OK if I check in in a week and see where you are with that? So it's a slow process. That's why it's always good to start these conversations early and not in a crisis. But if you are in a crisis, there are experts out there. There are tools out there that can help move your parents along a little bit faster to get the answers that you need.
Speaker 2:I absolutely love that, because you're asking your parents for their help rather than, you know, getting them to talk about these things that nobody really wants to talk about. That's fantastic, pam. Look like you had something to throw in here.
Speaker 4:Well, the thing that and I probably wasn't good at this, I'll admit it, but the thing that helped my parents was to ask questions versus telling them well, now we need to go through this and then we need to do that. And my dad had um, got really upset and about my mom's condition, and I said what's going on? I asked the question. I didn't say, dad, you can't behave like that. And so when we talk about planning to say, just, you know, something like what Rochelle had said is it's about? I understand this is scary.
Speaker 4:Honestly, why don't I do this with you, you know, why don't we both do it together? Because that way I get my act together, so to speak, and you can help me, and if you have questions, maybe I can help you and we can do this. We can go to the financial planner together or we can go to the lawyer together, and that's what we did. I went to every meeting that they went to and got my stuff together too, and then it felt like a family activity. I know that sounds weird, but it was. It was a joint thing, as opposed to it's time for us to sit down and talk about later in life living and and being this insurmountable, dreaded activity to the conversation. From kindness and compassion and an understanding that this is a scary conversation for everyone around the table, I think it goes much better.
Speaker 2:That is awesome. Do it as a partnership, as a collaboration rather than. You know, I want to know what's going to happen when you get old or die. You know nobody's going to be like, ooh, that sounds cool, I'm ready to have that conversation.
Speaker 3:Well, but but, tony, on that, you know my dad used humor a lot and I was again. I was lucky because his outlook on death was I mean, he was. There were times when he was terrified, leaving up to die, but for the most part there was a lot of humor involved and so if we can infuse that and get more into a flow state in a conversation, then it's better than all the resistance.
Speaker 4:My dad actually wrote a poem talking about humor humor if I should die before I wake, here's where to you know find the papers. And I mean it was all rhyming but it was really cute. And he he sent it to me in a, in a um, in an envelope, via the mail and because I think it was an emotional thing and it was cute and it was funny and and I still have it to this day because it was his way of saying here's where you find everything. But it was fun for him from a brain perspective to kind of figure out what words rhymed and that kind of thing. So humor is a really powerful emotional tool.
Speaker 2:You know, what I just thought would be a really cool idea is to do it almost like a treasure map, yeah, yeah, I mean not make the clues like super hard, you know. Yeah, like you're talking about is make it fun, is, you know, because nobody wants to do their will or trust and all the other stuff. So maybe you know, like you're talking about pam, make it fun somehow I scream afterwards yeah, you get a treat if you write your will, otherwise you get broccoli if you don't get your will done.
Speaker 4:Or Brussels sprouts.
Speaker 2:I like Brussels sprouts with bacon, so we could talk about that. So you know. To close up, you know, can everyone share a quick summary of what your number one takeaway tip is for the audience, Cameron?
Speaker 5:Again, these conversations need to happen sooner rather than later, for all the reasons that we discussed today. You don't want to wait until an emergency, because people are going to be more emotional then and they're not thinking rationally. People don't want to talk about their finances when they're dealing with a healthcare crisis, and so you find a time to have these conversations when everyone is calm and healthy and, again, relatively young. Young, and that doesn't mean that you know you're 20 and your parents are 45, but I mean, granted, I'm, I'm 51 and I've already had these conversations With my two older daughters, who are 18 and 20. I am that kind of plan, and I've gone through the process of drafting my will and estate planning documents not not once, not twice, but three times already. So it is it is important to to start sooner rather than later, because it's it can take time. Using stories is a good way to get through parents, get through to parents.
Speaker 2:It's something I did with my mom when she had Alzheimer's's, and so those would be my key takeaways that's awesome and I'll just tell him for people have kids turning 18, that's a really critical time to update all your state planning documents.
Speaker 5:So and it's a good time. Yes, your kids need them too. Once they're adults, you can't make medical decisions for them anymore, so so yes, done it for our kids also.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a shout out there to Mama Bear Legal Forms. That's who we've used. They make it super easy. I have zero affiliation with them, but just I've used them and I think they're great and easy. For something like we're talking about, just to do a power of attorney for a kid Definitely not sophisticated estate planning, but yeah, for something like we're talking about just to do a power of attorney for a kid definitely not sophisticated estate planning, but yeah, for something simple. Pam, what's your number one takeaway?
Speaker 4:I think it comes down to not dreading it, not dreading the conversation, but again coming from a place of kindness and compassion and collaboration, more than than telling your parents what they need to do to help you manage everything more easily. So being and that's the other thing is and I forget which who had actually mentioned help, the word help, and it's like if you could help me understand everything or or help me know where to look for your information, that would be that will help me deal with the situation at hand. And I'm a I'm with you, cameron. Sooner is smarter and I like using that, that alliteration, because people want to be smart.
Speaker 4:And when I talk about age, you know age and I'm so glad that that you shared the ages of your kids and yourself, because, honestly, if you're 45 or older and you don't have a plan, you don't have an advanced directive. If you get in a car accident, you know the hospital will make those decisions for you, and I've had some not good stories about that. So, being able to understand that there are consequences to you not and I think, rochelle, you might've brought that up there are consequences to you not doing this, this isn't one of those wait and see what happens, kinds of things, even if a crisis doesn't happen. Even if a crisis doesn't happen, other things happen, and so everyone should go through this process, and avoidance doesn't eliminate the risk. So sooner is smarter, go make it happen.
Speaker 2:Give yourself a deadline. Maybe that gets at least the conversation started. Well, I love how you prefaced it with come from a place of collaboration, and I think the other thing that's really important for people to know is that if you don't have an estate plan, the state has an estate plan for you, and there are things that can happen. So if you don't make your plan, things are going to happen in a way that you probably would prefer not to happen. So that's awesome advice, Rochelle what's your number one takeaway?
Speaker 3:I think, I've got two. So emotions first. Emotions have to be dealt with first, Otherwise you can't get any planning done and we're going to normalize this whole conversation. So advisors need to help normalize the conversation. Everybody needs to normalize planning for a long life and passing.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Yeah, you have to always consider the mental part of this is, you know, in the financial services world, we're so often driven by product that we don't think about, like the why. And then we wonder why our clients make funny decisions. Well, it's because they're not really on board or they're thinking of something else. So you know. To close up, I mean, the important thing is where can people connect with each of you, where can they learn more about what you're up to and where can they pick up each of your books? So you know, as we go around, please share the title of your book and where people can pick up Pano.
Speaker 4:So my book is it's Not that Simple Helping Families Navigate the Alzheimer's Journey, and you can find out more about me and what I do and set up a complimentary 30-minute session on my website, which is alzheimersfamilyconsultingcom. And Pam, it is not that simple.
Speaker 2:If you need to reach out to me via email, Cool and of course I'll have everybody links to everybody's books website and everything in the show notes, rochelle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I am always on LinkedIn, so you can find me on LinkedIn, rochelle. Yeah, so I am always on LinkedIn, so you can find me on LinkedIn at Rochelle Kana. My website is lifestyleforlegacycom and my book will be on pre-order in the next two weeks. Tony, I know I've been I've been working on this for a long time.
Speaker 4:Congratulations.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then, and then we'll be out shortly thereafter and it is called Inherited Trauma and Family Wealth.
Speaker 2:Awesome, awesome and share your link so I can make sure I get all the show notes updated. Cameron, how about you?
Speaker 5:You can find out more about me and my book, which is Mom and Dad. We Need to Talk at CameronHuddlestoncom.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, and thanks for letting me poach the title of your book for the title of this episode Mom and Dad, what's your Plan? So thanks all of you for being here today. This was an amazing conversation. I appreciate your time and your insights.
Speaker 4:Thank you, tony, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:And thank you everyone, as always, for tuning into this episode of the Get Ready Money podcast. If you learned something today to change the way you think about money, please be sure to subscribe and to tell a friend. Until next time let's change the way we think about money. Thank you.
