The Get Ready Money Podcast

Achieving Financial Dignity

• Tony Steuer

Share episode

Send us a text

On the latest episode of The Get Ready Money Podcast, I spoke with Christine Luken, Founder of the Financial Dignity Movement and the Wealthy Woman Book Club about changing the way we think about money and financial dignity.

In this episode we discussed:

  • You are responsible for your own personal finances, not anyone else’s. 
  • Money is about more than the numbers, it is emotional.
  • You should feel positive and peaceful with your money.
  • Financial professionals can help their clients gain financial dignity by asking questions to understand their why.
  • The power of compound interest - start saving early and often.

Christine Luken is the Founder of the Financial Dignity® Movement, Christine has coached hundreds of high-earning professionals, business owners, and divorcing women to pay off staggering amounts of debt and massively increase their net worth. The author of four books and host of the Wealthy Woman Book Club™, Christine blends wise money management with emotional intelligence. When she’s not connecting with her global online community or coaching clients from her office in beautiful Kentucky, you can find Christine on the golf course, by the pool, or curled up with a good book, a fluffy cat, and a strong cup of coffee. 


Connect with Christine Luken:

Website (here)

LinkedIn (here)

Instagram (here) 

Facebook (here) 

TikTok (here)  

YouTube (here)  


Books:

 Financial Dignity® After Divorce: A Woman’s Guide to Healing Her Relationship with Money (Amazon) https://amzn.to/3YVhqCG

Manage Money Like a Boss: A Financial Guide for Creative Entrepreneurs (Amazon) https://amzn.to/48HeexD

Money is Emotional: Prevent Your Heart From Hijacking Your Wallet (Amazon) https://amzn.to/4hEkP02

Provider Money Pleasure Money: The Energetics of Personal Finance (Amazon) https://amzn.to/4favkXf


Book Club:

The Wealthy Woman Book Club (here) 


Podcast:

Money is Emotional Podcast (here)

Support the show

The Get Ready Money Podcast and its guests do not provide investment advice. All content is for educational purposes. Guest opinions do not necessarily reflect the opinions of The Get Ready Money Podcast and Tony Steuer.

Speaker 1:

Are you looking to get ready, be prepared and transform your financial future? Then you've come to the right place. This is the Get Ready Money Podcast with Tony Stewart, where Tony has insightful conversations with financial experts who are changing the way we think about money. Catch up on the latest financial trends and hear practical advice from Tony and his expert guests so you can build healthy habits that work, Be empowered with tips for implementing small changes that can have a big impact on your financial future. So sit back and get ready to hear from today's guest. So sit back and get ready to hear from today's guest.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast changing the way we think about money. I'm pleased to be joined today by Christine Lukin. Christine is the founder of the Wealthy Woman Book Club and the founder of the Financial Dignity Movement. In this episode, we'll be discussing Christine's insights on how we change the way we think about money and financial dignity. Christine welcome to the Get Ready Money podcast. Thanks for joining us today.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, me too. So you know, to get started, you know, tell us a little bit about yourself. What is your origin story?

Speaker 3:

Oh my gosh. Well, I didn't roll out of bed one day and say I want to be a financial coach and I certainly don't help people with money, because I have always done the right things with money. In fact, it was quite the opposite. At age 26, I crashed and burned financially, despite having an accounting degree, despite working as an accountant for a multimillion dollar manufacturing company. The reason I got myself into this mess was because I was in a seven year relationship with a guy who had terrible money habits. He was in and out of jobs and even in and out of jail, and I thought, if I just loved him enough that he would change. And he did. He got worse.

Speaker 2:

Oh boy.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So you know, when I finally realized you know this guy is not going to grow up. You know, I guess it's fine to you know, be that way and be a little wild when you're in your late teens, early twenties, but at some point you have to grow up and be an adult, right? And I had a wedding dress in the closet and I broke off the engagement. So the problem was I had no money to leave. I had collectors calling me. I was actually parking my car about a half a mile away from my house so that the bank wouldn't find it. Oh boy, to my dad for help and he basically said I'm not going to lend you money, I'm not just going to give you money, but here's what I will do. I will give you a safe place to stay and regroup for a couple of months and I will help you put together a plan to get back on your feet.

Speaker 3:

So that was very humbling because obviously I was someone who should have known better. I was someone who was preparing the budget for this big company, but I was bouncing my own checks at home. So there was a lot of shame and embarrassment about the money messes that I had gotten myself into and so on my road back to financial recovery, or should I say financial dignity, I found it very perplexing that you know, how could somebody who is smart like me make such dumb decisions with money? Who is smart like me make such dumb decisions with money? And that's when I realized that money just isn't about the numbers. Money is very emotional and I saw a lot of other people around me who were very smart and they knew what they should be doing. And in fact, I would say probably 99.9% of your listeners know that you should spend less money than you make, you shouldn't get into excessive debt, you should be saving money, like. We all know these things, and yet so many of us get off track with this stuff.

Speaker 3:

And this was back in the early 2000s, when no one was talking about money mindset, they weren't talking about behavioral finance or the psychology of money, and it just got me very curious and I just, you know, really dissected my own situation and got very curious of why would I do these things? Like, very clearly on paper, this is the wrong thing to do, and yet those emotions are so strong and so, you know, obviously, getting away getting out of that relationship, my finances started improving pretty rapidly, and I remember driving to work probably about a year after that rock bottom moment and the thought struck me I'm not worried about money. And that was a shock to me, because the previous seven years that's all I did was worry about money. And then I thought, well, there must be other people out there who are also worried about money and they don't realize that there's a different way to do this. And so shortly after that, I was asked by someone at my church to help with a personal finance class. And so you might've heard of Dave Ramsey and his Financial Peace University, and you know, back then I mean that and they appreciated the fact that I was very transparent about the things that I had gone through. And so, you know, I taught his class for free at my church for 10 years and in the middle of that I found out I could be certified as a coach.

Speaker 3:

And when I got my certification I wasn't thinking, oh, I'm going to make a career out of this. You know, my thought was like all right, god, the universe got me out of this mess. Like, this is the way that I'm paying it forward, this is my way to give back, and I was already coaching people and I was like I should probably have some formal education to make sure I'm I'm doing this as effectively as possible, and that training did give me a lot of great skills in that regard is I could see so clearly what was lacking was giving people the skills to manage the emotions around money. It was just like buckle down and do this, and some people can do that right. Some people are super gung-ho and they can make themselves do that, and I would say maybe 20% of the population is like that. But the rest of us, we can get derailed by our emotions and there really wasn't anything out there giving people tangible things to do. You know, I was starting to see books about the psychology of money which I was devouring, but I wasn't seeing anybody put together practically those two things to really say, okay, what are the emotional landmines that you're going to encounter when you're looking at your spending or you're trying to make yourself save more, or when it comes to debt? And so that's what I started putting together for my clients was. A lot of times it was trial and error, figuring out different things and what works for different people. You know and I've been doing this now for 16 years, and so now I'm at the point to where I have this whole host of emotional money tools that you know.

Speaker 3:

I teach my clients, I teach the public, but I also teach other financial professionals and give them these tools that they can help their clients, because shaming people doesn't work. You and I both know that, because when someone makes a mistake and I always like to differentiate there's a difference between guilt and shame. So when you make a mistake, you feel guilty and if you allow that guilt to be productive, then you can examine what you did wrong, you can learn from that mistake and you can examine what you did wrong, you can learn from that mistake and you can change your behavior. So guilt when you do something wrong isn't completely bad.

Speaker 3:

The problem is if you internalize the guilt and it becomes shame, because shame makes you want to hide from the problem, not fix the problem. So you go from saying guilt is I did a bad thing, shame is I did a bad thing and I'm a bad person because of it, and so I felt shame for way too many years without doing anything about it, too many years without doing anything about it, and that's really what hurts people. So if financial professionals understand the emotional side of money, then they can meet their clients where they are and say hey, there's no need to be ashamed, you just haven't learned these emotional money techniques. And now that you know them, then we can start implementing them so that we're aligning your emotions with the results you actually want awesome that.

Speaker 2:

That's quite the story and it's interesting in in a number of ways. It resonates with me because in my 20s I struggled with debt. I took out credit cards when I was in college. I was a finance major with an emphasis in investment, so, like you, I knew how to interpret numbers and I did that professionally. And it's still an easy trap to fall into yeah, and you know, so a lot of people fall into it?

Speaker 2:

yeah, and the other thing is about Dave Ramsey is you know? I think you know a lot of people have mixed feelings about him because he's introduced so many people to budgeting and talking about money and have the conversation, but at the same time, it's a very harsh approach, right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, you know so. Yeah, it's like that, the 1980s dad that's going to bend you over and spank you for misbehaving with your money. You know most of us want a little kinder, gentler approach these days and when you account for the emotions as well, that sometimes the black and white answer on paper may not be the right decision for someone emotionally and you have to take that into account.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, 100% is. You know that's. You know I took a lot of psychology and philosophy classes when I was in college and you know I noticed that over my consulting career is that you know there'd be very smart, sophisticated, accomplished people and yet they would make very questionable decisions with their money when you knew the numbers penciled out one way and they'd have a team of advisors you know saying, you know you may want to rethink this, but there was still something that would drive them to make decisions. There you go, like. You know I'm not sure what you're thinking, but you know.

Speaker 3:

Well, and it's so funny because a lot of times they don't even realize why they're thinking that. And you and I both know that many times things that happen to us in our childhood that are attached to money, can live down in our unconscious minds, acting out of these unconscious patterns that we witnessed our parents or other important adults in our childhood doing, and it's just like, well, that's just the way we do it right, that's the money blueprint that we're operating from.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Yeah, money stories are so important. I love that how you put it. The money blueprint we're operating from, so I want to ask you, you know, I mean, your big thing is financial dignity. What is the financial dignity movement?

Speaker 3:

Well, to me, you know, financial dignity means that you feel positive and peaceful about your money, and that looks different for everyone, and so I take this from two approaches. I look at it from the client's perspective, my coaching clients, the people who are buying my courses. I want to arm them with the information to make wise financial decisions, but also to have that emotional intelligence as well. And the other side of that is arming financial professionals with the tools so that they can bring their clients to a place of financial dignity as well. Most of the financial planners I talk to are very smart people. They want to help their clients, but sometimes they get to this point where they say I can't make my clients listen to me and take the action steps. I know what's best for them. I've given them this plan and I can't make them take action on it, and it's frustrating for them. So rather than just having them knock their heads against the wall, I wanted to give them those tools and like kind of pull the curtain back to say here's what's going on behind the scenes in your client's head.

Speaker 3:

I found out several years after writing my book Money is Emotional, that science has proven that the moment of decision. Any decision happens in the same part of the brain that processes emotion, so we can't make a purely logical decision. Emotion is part of all of our decisions. Now there might be somebody that says, well, I'm not an emotional spender. The fact of the matter is they are.

Speaker 3:

They've just trained their emotions to feel good when they do the right thing with money, which is awesome, but they don't know how to teach their clients how to do that Right. They're like, well, you should just do this. So it was like bridging that gap, um, and really getting the word out to as many people as possible, because I can't possibly coach all the people that need to be coached. I wanted to offer this training to all financial professionals, even other financial coaches, because you and I both know money stress is one of the top two stressors period. It causes divorce, it causes anxiety, it causes depression. We need help with this and unfortunately, there's not a good system that is teaching people this as they go through high school, college, et cetera. So, those of us who are in the field, we need to be able to have these tools to help people regain their financial dignity.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I love that Financial professionals need to help their clients gain financial dignity gain financial dignity.

Speaker 2:

You know. That brings me back to something you said at the very beginning and now I kind of fortunately, I lost the train of thought that I had. I apologize, but you know it comes back to. You know, as you mentioned not learning about money, but oh yeah. So what you said about everybody knows they need to save more money than they spend, they need to manage their debt. None of these things are secrets or unknown, but it's the question is why, as you're trying to answer, why aren't people doing these things? And that's a question we really need to ask. And I think a lot of advisors struggle with helping their clients answer their questions because it was, like you know, in my example earlier, it's like everybody knew what needed to be done. Even the clients knew and understood what needed to be done, but there would always be something holding them back, and sometimes it was a relationship they had. You know, in my case, a lot of clients get very tight with their life insurance professional, you know.

Speaker 2:

Oh well, that's my golf buddy and I don't want to make this move because it's going to insult her if I do this, and I think you know, like you, said, those are all the things that are going on in the client's mind, or you know, or I don't want to admit to my spouse that I made this move, you know, because then my spouse is going to go. Why didn't you do this 10 years ago? Right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah Well don't keep making the same mistake right.

Speaker 2:

Exactly so, yes, it gets very complex. So I love the work that you're doing and I think it's important for advisors to understand this and think about this from the client's perspective is you're helping your clients with their dignity? You're not helping them. Most people really don't care about the difference between two mutual funds, and you know they want to know which one's going to help them out the most. But what they're really concerned about like OK, am I going to be OK in retirement? You know, do I feel good about what I'm doing? Do I understand it or am I ashamed about it?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so I love your approach. I can give you a great example. I had a client who was coming out of divorce. She was getting, you know, a good chunk of money in investments and she had the majority of her non-investment money in a checking account. And I said to her we really need to open a savings account so that we can be earning some interest on this. And it was on her homework list for like six weeks, right, and you know we had had several sessions. I'm like have you done this yet? Have you done this yet? And then finally she said you know we had had several sessions. I'm like have you done this yet? Have you done this yet? And then finally she said you know, I was going to, I was going to go do this.

Speaker 3:

And she said I literally felt like I was going to have a panic attack, like leaving the house to go to the bank, and I I have no idea why. And so I just asked her a simple question. I said was there ever a time in your life that it didn't feel safe to save money? And she just sat there for a minute and then there was like this look of recognition across her face and she's like well, there was this one time and she's like, no, that's dumb. And I'm like, no, tell me, that's dumb. And I'm like, no, tell me. And she said well, it like happened when I was like six years old and I was like, yeah, you better tell me about this.

Speaker 3:

And her stepbrother was nine years older than her and she used to have this piggy bank that anytime she got a dollar or some quarters for doing her chores or for a birthday, whatever, she put it in this piggy bank. And she had about $10 in her piggy bank. Well, one day she went to go put some money in it and when she pulled it off the dresser, she could feel that it was empty. And what ended up happening is that her stepbrother had stolen the money. Eventually, her parents figured out what happened and made her stepbrother return the money to her, and so I said to her I said what did you do with that money when he gave it back to you? And she said I spent it.

Speaker 3:

And I said did you ever put any money back into that piggy bank again? And she said no. And I said you know why? Again, and she said no. And I said you know why, right? And she said no. And I said because it didn't feel safe to save money and the trust was violated from someone very close to you, and so you've had this unconscious belief that saving money isn't safe and you better just go ahead and spend it because something's going to come along to take it, something or someone. And so just us uncovering that memory helped her feel so much better, and then we created some positive statements around my money is safe in the bank. It's safe for me to save money, I'm an amazing saver. And it was. You know. Within like a week she had her account open, she had her money moved over, she had set up automatic transfers. But she couldn't have told you, until we uncovered that memory, why she couldn't open that savings account and why she wasn't saving money yeah, I think that's so important ask your clients questions to understand their why?

Speaker 2:

um, because that's what you I mean, you were essentially a detective uh, going a little bit deeper, a little bit deeper, and you know there was a reason for her decision and it was a good reason, but but like you said, it was way below the surface. Um, so I'm gonna transition in what I call the get ready questions. These are questions I ask all the guests. Uh, the first one is what basic money concept do you wish people knew?

Speaker 3:

What basic concept. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2:

The power of compound interest Start saving early and often.

Speaker 3:

you know, even just I went back one time and did the calculation of how much money I missed out on from not saving from the time I was 19 to 26, because I didn't really start investing until after I left my ex at age 26. I calculated it once and it made me sick to my stomach. You know just that little bit of money as soon as you have a job, putting it into that 401k or that Roth IRA is so important, like it literally is the miracle of compounding. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

And a high percentage of my guests have that answer. So people who watch and listen to the show you've heard this before have that answer. So people who watch and listen to the show you've heard this before and there's a good reason why this tip keeps coming up again and again. And there is an episode for people who are new to the show that is just about the power of compound interest that you can listen to in the archives and I'll link to that episode in the show notes so you can check that out. Episode in the show notes, so you can check that out. So, christine, what is one simple thing people can do each year to set themselves up for financial success?

Speaker 3:

I think it is to get clear on their goals for the year and, honestly, fewer goals are actually better. I would pick a primary goal that you want to work on, extremely focused on getting our mortgage paid off, and anytime we had any extra money, anytime we saved money because we had shopped around for a purchase, we would put the difference towards that and we had always paid extra on the mortgage. But for two years we got super focused. My husband worked overtime and you know we ended we ended up shaving off 13 years off of our 30 year mortgage.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so for each year, I think it is good to have a primary focus of where is our energy really going and what is the most important financial goal for us right now, because I think having too many goals scatters your energy. And so if you can have one primary goal, like what if this one thing was solved in your money, what would make you feel like 80% better about your money? For a lot of people, it's paying off credit card debt or increasing their investments. Like what is that one thing? And get super focused on that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I love that is. You know, I suggest to people's when they plan out their goals is to prioritize them, which comes up with the same thing, and then work on the ones that are priority, because you may have a bunch of goals but you know usually which ones are going to be your higher priority.

Speaker 3:

That's awesome.

Speaker 2:

So the next question is what is one habit that people can change when it comes to their money?

Speaker 3:

one habit that people can change when it comes to their money. The one habit I would love for everyone to do with their money is to have a weekly date with their money, and this applies if you're single, if you're married, if you're dating. Obviously, if you're managing money together with a spouse or a partner, you want to do this together. But spend some quality time looking at your money, checking your bank accounts, checking on your spending. I love using a personal finance app to make this easier, so currently I'm using Monarch Money. There is a little bit of a cost to it, but it's pretty inexpensive and it literally takes me 10 or 15 minutes a week so I make sure I'm on track with all my goals. I can see my changes for my net worth and my investments, because what you pay attention to will positively change.

Speaker 3:

If you ignore something, it's not going to get better, and so I think a lot of people think, oh, this budget meeting has to be something that's complex and long and has spreadsheets, and it's going to be a pain in the butt and I'm not going to enjoy it. You can create a very positive environment around this. I tell people you know, put on some relaxing or upbeat music, you know, make yourself a hot cup of coffee or tea. Now, if you want to have a special scented candle, that's just special for your money. Time Like you can make it a special time with your money. And if you spend time with your money it's going to grow because money wants to be managed. And if you're not proactively managing your money it will leave and find somebody else who will manage it better. I like that.

Speaker 2:

Keep an eye on your money. I like that. Keep an eye on your money.

Speaker 3:

Well, I mean, if you almost think about money like a person if you treated your spouse the way you treat money, how would they feel right? So if you ignore your spouse, if you talk negatively about them, if you never spend any time with them, you're not going to have a great marriage. Well, if you don't spend any time with money and you talk negatively about it and you ignore it, then you can't expect to have a positive experience in your personal finances 100%, 100%, all right.

Speaker 2:

Well, the next question is is what money myth are you trying to break?

Speaker 3:

well, the money myth that I am trying to break is that if you haven't figured out this money thing, there is nothing wrong with you. Most people come to me and say I'm 40, I'm 50. Why? What is wrong with me that I can't figure this money thing out? And what is wrong with me is the wrong question. The right question is what happened to me? What happened to me that is causing me to interact with my money in this way? And if we can get to the bottom of that question, then we can repair your relationship with money.

Speaker 2:

That's awesome. And you know, for everybody watching and listening, it's never too late. Today is the best day to do it, and it's okay. Everybody has money struggles or money challenges.

Speaker 3:

One thing I love to say to people is that you can't change your financial destination overnight, but you can change your financial direction in an instant if you decide to in an instant, if you decide to.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I I love that it's possible. So next question is we're going to get out the time machine for a minute. What advice would you give your younger self if you could go back in time, knowing what you know? Now you know. I know you've given some tips, so if you want to just revisit those, that, that's fine.

Speaker 3:

I would say leave him sooner.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's a different type of podcast.

Speaker 3:

Well, you know what, though? What it points back to is the financial codependency, and essentially, the advice I would give myself is that you are responsible for your own personal finances. You are not responsible for anybody else's, especially if you're not married yet.

Speaker 2:

I love that, so for all those young folks out in the crowd I, I like that because I think people do get wrapped up in that. And you know you talk about lending money to family members and all the other things you know, but there is a lot of stuff there where you have to take care of yourself first. You know, it's like on an airplane. They don't say put on everyone else's oxygen mask first, it's like put on your own oxygen mask and make sure you're squared away. Um, so what is your number one absolute favorite money resource, whether it's a podcast, book, newsletter, app or website that you recommend to people oh my gosh.

Speaker 3:

So can I recommend one of my own things?

Speaker 2:

Of course.

Speaker 3:

Because I want to recommend the Wealthy Woman Book Club to any of the women who are listening, because this community that I have created is full of phenomenal women of all incomes and all ages and all backgrounds. You don't have to be wealthy yet. You just have to have the desire to increase your financial resources for your own benefit, for the family of your benefit and for the benefit of humanity, because women are so super generous and I firmly believe that the way that we change society is by having lots of wealth in the hands of generous women. So we read a book, a money book, together once a month, we have discussions about it, we have a Facebook group for community building and you know we do two live sessions where we talk about the books. The women can ask any questions relative to their personal finances and it's a safe, supportive place where people can learn. And there's no shame. That's the big thing. There's no shame in the Wealthy Woman Book Club.

Speaker 2:

That is awesome, I love that. And, of course, for everybody watching and listening as always, there'll be links so you can find it, so you don't have to just search it in Google. There'll be links.

Speaker 3:

Well, you know, I did buy the website.

Speaker 2:

So if you go to wealthywomanbookclubcom, it will take you to the right page. Awesome. Well, that's nice and easy, thank you. So, to close out, what is your number one tip on changing the way we think about money?

Speaker 3:

I think, just understanding the fact that money is emotional, that money is. You know that emotions aren't bad. It's not that your money is at war with your emotions. We just have to learn how to manage them so that money and emotions can get along, because emotions are very powerful. You know. Emotion literally means energy in motion. We can harness the power of our emotions to do good things with money.

Speaker 2:

So, rather than trying to fight against it, let's learn how to harness that power. That's awesome. I love that. Let's harness the power of it. So, Christine and you know, keeping in mind I will have actual links in the show notes is where can people find out more about you? What platforms are you active on?

Speaker 3:

Yes, so my website is my name. It's christinelukincom, so you can find all the courses, the book club, all of that good stuff there. I'm super active on LinkedIn and Facebook and Instagram. Those are my three primary ones and if you search my name, you'll find me.

Speaker 2:

Cool, awesome, well, thank you. And, as always, just to remind everyone who's watching and listening, in the show notes there will be links to all of Christine's social media profiles, her website and everything else, so you'll be able to easily find her, as well as her podcast, which we didn't even get a chance to talk about. So there'll be a link to the podcast as well. So, christine, thanks again for joining us today on the Get Ready Money podcast.

Speaker 3:

Thanks for having me, it's been fun.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, this is a great conversation, as always. Thank you everyone for tuning into this episode of the Get Ready Money podcast. If you learned something today to change the way you think about money, please be sure to subscribe and to tell a friend. Until next time let's change the way we think about money. You.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Tony Steuer

Host