How Financial Resilience Protects People from Scams

In financial services, three voices dominate the conversation: regulators, institutions, and technology.

Julia Chin believes there’s a fourth voice we need to hear more clearly: the human voice trying to make sense of it all. 

On this episode of Get Ready Before Life Happens, I spoke with Julia Chin, financial crime fighter and founder of JFourth Solutions why financial crime prevention must start with human understanding, how financial resilience protects families from scams, and why financial literacy is one of the most powerful tools for navigating today’s financial systems.

Key Takeaways

🔹 Financial systems often focus on rules, products, and technology while overlooking the human perspective.
 🔹 The PULSE framework emphasizes people, undertaking, leadership, structure and ecosystem to protect people, not just tick boxes.
 🔹 Financial resilience starts with buffers like emergency savings.
 🔹 Scams target vulnerability and can affect anyone.
 🔹 Financial knowledge helps people recognize risks and push back when something feels wrong.
 🔹 Financial inclusion and dignity help reduce exposure to financial crime.
 🔹 Curiosity, caution, compassion, and creativity help people navigate an AI-driven financial world.

💭 Tony’s Take: Financial systems work best when they protect people. When we build resilience, stay curious, and understand the risks around us, we strengthen our ability to navigate an increasingly complex financial world. Financial resilience is about protecting ourselves and the people we care about.

Connect with Julia Chin:

• JFourth Solutions Website: https://www.jfourthsolutions.com
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pekyee-julia-chin/
• Tripwire Newsletter (Substack): https://thetripwire.substack.com/
• The Fourth Perspective (LinkedIn Newsletter): https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/7421859851661877248/

Referenced:

• Dignity and Financial Literacy on The Get Ready Money Podcast with Peter Kwadwo Asare Nyarko (YouTube)

Bio: 

Julia Chin has spent 36 years fighting financial crime , not with a badge, but with knowledge. From audit rooms to boardrooms, she's seen how financial systems can both protect and exclude the people they're meant to serve — and how financial criminals exploit that gap. Today, through JFourth Solutions, her newsletter Tripwire (co-authored with her partner in crime, Ren Chang), and The Fourth Perspective on LinkedIn, Julia champions financial literacy as protection, helping individuals and professionals ask the right questions, spot the red flags, and build the kind of resilience that survives life's shocks. Her belief: everyone has a role to play in making our financial world safer - no badge required.

This episode is a collaboration with The Money Awareness and Inclusion Awards (the MAIAs) which celebrate the increasingly important work being done to help people understand money better. Learn more: https://www.maiawards.org.  

 ☕ Support the Get Ready Movement.

If these conversations help you think differently about money or prepare for life’s what-ifs, your support helps expand financial readiness education and keep this work accessible.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:22

Welcome to Get Ready Before Life Happens. Today I'm joined by Julia Chint. Julia, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much, Tony. I'm so glad to be here. Yeah, it's great to have you. So tell us a little bit about yourself. What is your origin story and how did it lead you to focusing on the human side of risk?

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Well, I think that, you know, I would say that if, okay, so maybe I should start by introducing myself. Is that um, you know, I have spent actually over 30 years in financial um inside financial systems, audit, banking, foreign state investigation, compliance, risk management. I've seen money from almost every angle, I think, and worked my way through just about every corner of the financial world. Now, here's the one thing the most important lesson I ever learned about finance didn't come from a boardroom or a textbook. It came from when I nearly lost everything. Well, life happens. So now, through my consultancy, um, J4 Solutions, I help organizations build risk and compliance culture using framework which I developed called Pulse, which stands for people, undertaking, leadership, structure, and ecosystem with the aim to actually protect people, not just tick boxes. And so I tend to write and speak about the human side of um financial crime and financial resilience. So, yeah, and um to get ready before life happens. So when it comes to um this uh generally when I talk about this, is where um how do we protect the you know where I was okay? So I've seen actually, as I mentioned, for most of the time I was looking at money from inside out and from institutions' perspective. How do we protect the bank? How do we satisfy the regulators? How do we manage the risk? Then COVID hit, then everything flipped, right? I lost my job, single parent, three kids depending on me, and suddenly I wasn't thinking about compliance framework or regulatory requirements anymore. I was sitting at the kitchen table at 2 a.m. Couldn't sleep, doing arithmetic, basic meds. If I pay the electricity bill, can we still afford the groceries? Um, and then if the car breaks down, what do we do? You know, and um I had knowledge that most people don't have that, but none of that mattered because I had no buffer, no emergency fund, no cushion to absorb the shock. So that's when I actually um recognized the difference between financial access and financial resilience, they're not the same thing. And I learned about protecting institutions need to be translated into protecting people, real people, people like me in that moment, educated, the experience is still completely vulnerable. So that's why, you know, and this is what actually drove me to talk more about the human side of financial systems and being um having been on both sides in as an expert in a boardroom and as a human a mom at the kitchen table. So yeah, that's uh where I where I am today.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Yeah, well that you know that's incredibly deep because I I think a lot of us who are professionals in the business, and you know, especially those who've worked with regulatory, or as you mentioned, with corporate, is that there's a disconnect with what consumers and the people we serve are going through. It's easy to say, well, we need to pass this law or we need to enforce this action or whatever. And then, you know, there's the reality of what people are actually dealing with. And I think that's often overlooked.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Absolutely. Yeah, you know, and a lot of times when we talk about money and financial systems, there are usually three voices that dominate the conversation. First, you have the regulators, they're saying, here are the rules, here's what's allowed, here's what's not allowed. Then you have the institutions, the banks, insurance companies, financial services, firms, payment service providers, and they are saying, here's our product, here's what we're selling, and here's how you can give us your money. And then you have the technology, the fintechs, you have your crypto, your blockchain, your stablecoin now, the apps, the platforms, and they're saying, here's how to do it faster, here's how to do it in your phone, here's how to automate everything, right? And then all these three voices are so important. But I think there's something that has been forgotten, and which is the fourth voice, which is why I started the fourth perspective, which is the perspective of the human. Um, that person actually trying to make sense of everything that is around us, how we can protect our family, our loved ones, build our future, and also not get tripped off in the process is about, you know, putting the human back into the center of the conversation.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

I I love that. Putting the human back at the center of the conversation. I'm also noting that down because I think that is so important because I think we do forget that, you know, when we're working, you know, either on a regulation or we're talking about enforcement actions, or when we're talking about product sales, is that you know, there's all these things that go on in the background, and yet, you know, we don't talk about the actual people and how it's actually going to impact them. So, you know, one of the things you and I were talking about pre-show is about financial resilience. Um, could you go into a little bit more about what is financial resilience?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Well, I I don't know where this quote came from. I would say that um I think it came from one of the banks. So let's start with the three economic or financial modes every day, one day, sorry, every day, rainy day, and one day. So when we talk about financial resilience, is how um at any point in time are we able to withstand the pressure? Is whether or not uh we are hand to mouth, which is every day, or we have some buffer that we can in the event we lose a job or something happens, you know, we are able to withstand that kind of pressure. And of course, one day is the part where one day we can own a house, one day we can do certain things. So that means you have a longer buffer. So being financially resilient means that you have to have a buffer. Um, that's that's actually what um I would uh always think about, you know, which mode we are currently in.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Yeah, and I I think you know, the other thing when we talked about a buffer is that that can be it means so many different things, you know. You read here, it's like, you know, 90 days of expenses here, you read this, but life is not always, you know, so clear cut. You know, so what advice would you give to people who are thinking about like, okay, so I I want to be financially resilient, I want to be set up. You know, what do you recommend to people to think about when they're setting up this fund or coming up with a plan?

SPEAKER_00 8:22

Well, um, that's one um term that we say, you know, we don't do it over uh just have uh that kind of buffer overnight because life happens. So we may not be able to have that kind of a rainy day buffer so easily. We need to start thinking about uh understanding uh budgeting uh to help us to build that rainy day buffer. We also need to understand that how we can avoid the traps that keep us stuck in everyday mode. Uh, we need to understand scams to help us protect ourselves for um and also what we have built, right? Because I think one of the biggest concerns that we have nowadays is actually uh we may have the rainy day buffer and it just goes overnight. I've had my friends and loved ones being hit by that. Um, even the one-day uh savings, or you call it the um the nest with eggs inside, they got stolen away uh from uh using the fraud and scam. And also actually understanding our rights to push back when something is wrong. And um, I think that that's where I feel that if all of us are able to have that kind of understanding, is also to it will have a ripple effect. And if we are financially literate, we model it for our kids, we can spot it with our parents if they are being targeted. We can be the person that our friends call on if something feels not right. Um, it actually is where if we have the knowledge, we have that financial literacy, we would not just protect ourselves, we protect our whole whole circle.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

Yeah, I completely agree with you. And you know, is that I think that having knowledge does protect you. And you know, if we think about you know, something, let's say, outside of finances, because finances can be tricky for people, is you know, if you know something about, let's say, grocery shopping and prices and things like that, you're going to be more forearmed when you go shopping. Because if you know that eggs are normally, you know, a dollar a dozen, which I don't think they are anywhere in the world anymore, but let's say eggs are a dollar a dozen, is and somewhere is charging you five dollars a dozen, you know that that's probably a bad deal. And so, you know, again, sorry I brought money into it. However, I think that we know that having some knowledge does tend to protect you. So I love where you're going with that.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yeah, it is about having that the we know whether or not something is reasonable. And it comes also to the point where, well, it's not just about whether the price is higher or is a you think that it's a good deal. This is also where we sharpen our noses uh to be able to smell if something is off. It's like if something sounds too good to be true, chances are they are, right? So it works both ways.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah, I I think that's exactly it, though. If something sounds too good to be true, it's it's probably got an issue. And I think that's something that we tend to forget. And I've seen that in my own work, is that people, you know, sometimes buy into that story. They think they're a little smarter, you know, and that's what scammers work on is you know, Julia, I've got this great deal, and you know, we're the only two who know how this works, but don't tell anybody else because it's a secret. And you know, that's I mean, I'm sure you've seen that one before, that that playbook.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yeah, that's a very typical one. We call it isolation. So, you know, one one of the sayings that I love is that if you haven't been scammed, it just means that one hasn't been created for you yet. So it does sound rather harsh, but it's true because you know, scammers don't target our intelligence, they target our emotions. And, you know, it's actually the same techniques that help build people build good financial habits, the small steps, emotional engagement, the trust building over time, you know how the apps nowadays work, you know, with all the behavioral analytics put inside. Or then you also have the urgency. You talk about uh just now you talk about uh, you know, don't tell anyone because it's only you or me. It's well, professionals go for scams to people who should know better. Um the scammers are actually not smarter than the victims, they're just better at exploiting emotions.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

Yeah, and that's it. It's it's all about the psychology and the manipulation. And you know, as you point out, anybody can get scammed and some very wealthy and smart people. We we can go back a few years in the United States to Bernie Madoff, who took advantage of you know, some brilliant people. And these things do happen, and as you point out, it's just because you necessarily haven't been targeted by the right scam. Um, so it is about protecting yourself with some knowledge. So, you know, one of the things is you know that we we talk about financial inclusion. I think you mentioned it financial inclusion can also help reduce financial crime. Can you go into that a little bit?

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Well, I think this is especially so when um someone is in in an everyday mode and they are worried about being able to put food dinner on the table tonight. And this is how people get exploited, they are more vulnerable. So, say for example, a mother who has a sick child and she's already in everyday mode, and this is actually quite a common scenario that we see is that if you're already in an everyday mode and then you have a sick child, and someone offers you, okay, can I use your account for um and to to transfer some money through? And for every thousand dollars that I use your account, you get to keep 100. Do you think that parent would say yes to it? If my child is sick, I would. So this is why financial inclusion and financial crime are actually connected.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yeah, I I you know that is very spot on because when people, I don't want to use the word desperate, but you know, when you're in that mode where you're trying to protect your child, you are more likely to do something that you think is going to benefit the child. And that's where you might miss or overlook one of the warning signs because you're like, yeah, you know, maybe that's a little bit off, but I really need this to be successful. And that's where it gets pretty scary because again, that goes back to what you were saying earlier about the vulnerabilities, and that's what scammers really pick up on is they find the vulnerability in your defense and they attack it. And it makes me think of sports is you know, I used to play basketball, and what you look for is you look for a vulnerability in the defense. You know, is a defender turned one way so you can exploit that and go the other way? And that's, you know, to me, what scammers are looking for. They're looking for that little hole that they can thread to take advantage of somebody.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Yes, the the vulnerability can be in any form. It could be emotional, it could be that the parent needs the money. Uh, and this there's something that has always also in the past two years we have been talking about is um about you know, looking at ways to give people that dignity of choice. Oh, sorry, to the choice to live with dignity, to be able to put food on the table for their family. And uh, what does that look like? Um, I would say that uh first is to give people jobs.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah, yeah, you know, it's interesting that you mentioned the word dignity. Uh my most downloaded episode is called Financial Literacy and Dignity. And by far, it's my most downloaded episode. And so I think there's a lot to that, is that we can provide people with dignity. So as we talk about that and we talk about financial systems, is what advice would you give to you know organizations and regulators to think about you know providing people with dignity through their work?

SPEAKER_00 17:20

Yes, yes. Um, I think this this is where the challenges are at the moment, is where a lot of people are being displaced by adoption of AI. Um, I actually just wrote about this uh a couple of days where I did a post about it and which I highlighted, you know. So just look at the trees. When um it for those uh timber companies, normally what they do is that there are certain countries that are regulated where if you cut a tree down, you have got to replant. Uh, is that happening with uh people who are displacing um jobs uh or people from jobs? Um are they are these people being retrained for jobs or to prepare them for the future of work? So that is yeah, I use the same concept as you know, replanting, whether people are actually getting that so that they they are able to get themselves back into work.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

I I I love that. Are they being replanted? Because we're not addressing that in my mind very well as a society, is that these changes are coming very fast. And we can look back when uh you know, manufacturing and machines came in and the Luddites, you know, who are destroying machines because they didn't, they weren't able to adjust to the new technology. But that happened over a longer period of time, where right now we're seeing some of this displacement happen just so fast, and there's not really been organizational planning for like how do we, and this gets back to the financial inclusion, how do we as societies you know um help people overcome these changes? So it's it's fascinating to talk about this.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah, I think this is probably where um I felt that a conversation with you is rather thought-provoking because we have um we we now know that we need to do something about it, is also to throw the question out there, how do we solve it, you know, as a society, as a community. I think it's not just about you know, people looking at saving costs by using AI, but look at how we can also build the entire society together.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Yeah, I that is such an important issue, you know, that we do need to come together as a society, you know, in our different countries and around the world and start addressing this. And it is a global issue. And I don't know if any one country can solve this on its own because I think AI is also going to personally, in my opinion, is break down some of the traditional uh, I don't know, borders in certain ways, is that we don't in my mind, we've created an alien superintelligence and we don't know how it's going to do. And you know, from things that I read, I don't know, you know, what what your take is on it. But I think the lot of people don't, even the smartest and most well-read people on AI and those involved really still don't know what AI is going to do and how it's going to impact people.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Well, I am not very tech savvy, and to me, AI still very much feels like a black box. Um, and um, but having said that, I am not against it because it helps me a lot in um working faster, more effect, more efficiently. Uh helps me do my brainstorming work as well. It helps me to get information data much faster than I would normally do on my own. But yes, I think that there is still a lot that we need to um understand about AI.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Yeah, and I think it has, it is going to drive financial crime, unfortunately, because AI can, you know, to get back to what you said earlier, is you just haven't been hit by the right scam. Um you know, and that I think AI is going to be used and is being used to target more personal scams, unfortunately, that are designed to take advantage of your individual vulnerabilities, and that can be done at scale, uh, where you know it's pretty scary. Um, you know, so one other thing I want to touch on real quickly before we wrap up is you know, what can you know, individuals Individuals do those of us who are working in financial literacy, a lot of the audience for this podcast are financial literacy advocates around the world like us. Is you know, what advice would you give the advocates who are working with people? Either they're building financial literacy nonprofits, they're regulating, they're teaching people. What advice would you give them for thinking about, you know, building financial resilience or encouraging financial resilience for their communities?

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Well, I would say that each community will have their nuances. And um I will go back to what I advocate is to think about the three C's of human superpowers. Um now it's three fast one, but let's look at the first three C's. One is curiosity. Um stay curious, stay cautious. Uh that is important because you know I think that given that I don't think there will be a one-size-fit all, neither will there be a silver bullet to financial resilience, but to stay curious and to stay observant. Um, the other one is to stay compassionate. Um, by compassionate, it's not just about being able to empathize, but also to be able to contextualize. Something that make uh that makes sense to me in Asia may not make so much sense to anyone from uh Africa or from uh to the Americas or to Europe. So be the compassionate here also means to be able to contextualize and to also uh stay creative. Stay creative is not about being able to draw, but about being able to connect the dots. So I think all these um having all these three C's of human superpower, I feel is something whether or not um you know technology is going to take over the world, humans still need to continue to train our minds to do that and to remember that we are humans at the end of the day. And of course, the fourth C is the most difficult one, it's called common sense. Um it's not so common. Uh but I mean it it sounds very conceptual, but I think that if we look at it from a human superpower perspective, we'll be able to see that hey, you know, uh let's stay human, let's stay curious, let's stay creative, connect the dots, and let's stay compassionate and have some common sense.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yeah, no, I I I love that. And for me, I I yeah, common sense is a huge part of it. I I think stay curious for me is a whole point of my work, is to help people ask better questions, but also that's a challenge. If people aren't curious and they don't ask questions, they are more likely to get scammed. Is scammers don't like to be questioned. And that is a good way to catch a scammer, is just to keep asking them questions because sooner or later they're not going to want to answer. And that is a red flag. If you're dealing with a legitimate, let's say, financial planner, they're going to answer your questions, you know, to some degree. But it's the ones who don't ask answer questions, you know, or start to hedge on the questions, and that's the common sense is yeah, like, okay, why are they not answering my questions? Why, you know, like to get back to our isolation scenario, why do they not want you to talk to somebody? You know, why? And that's a question, you know. Um, what are the I think they said for journalism there was a who, what, where, when, why, and how. Yep. And when you answer those questions and you ask those about financial services, and I think that's the other thing too, is that for most people, they're overwhelmed by the thought of financial services and products. And so they they don't practice those um three C's of you know their human superpower.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah. Actually, when you talk about the asking questions, right? I I want to also share this experience that I had. This was during the early days when uh bots just came into the market, probably about 12 years ago. Um, when I it was when uh I actually I don't know how it happened, I stumbled on a bot and it started to we were chatting. Uh it was actually the beginning of um it was Skype. It was during the days of Skype, and we were chatting, and then I kept asking questions. I kept asking questions until I jammed the bot. So it was quite hilarious. I wish I had kept some of the screenshots because I just felt that, oh, how did I manage to jam the bot? What I meant by jamming the board was where I kept asking why, why do you say this, right? Until it started to go back into the questions and the comments that it gave me earlier. Um, you know, it's just when you were talking about why and how and all that. So basically staying curious is yeah, some sometimes staying curious. Uh well, the good, the blessing was that it actually jammed the bot, but it was it was quite funny. Yeah, I didn't know it was a bot.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

I don't know if you can do that to a bot anymore because they've gotten just so amazingly smart. But it is a little scary, you know, is that you know, I I've helped uh, you know, I use AI to help do the show notes for the podcast. And one time I forgot to paste in the person's, you know, title and occupation. And the bot very confidently made up a title, occupation, and company for my guest. And you know, and it's so confident, and that's the thing. That's what scammers are like, you know, not saying that the bot was trying to scam me, but it filled in that information that it thought I wanted, and that's what scammers do. They fill in the information that they think you want. Because that's what the bot said. It you know, it said XYZ person, founder of this firm, you know, and it's like none of that was true. I just forgot to paste in the name and title, and it was it was insane.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

That's interesting, yeah. So I think it is it's actually about uh being able to um understand all this hallucination does happen, and also to remember that AI is a double-edged sword, it can work in our favor. And well, bad guys use that too. We know psychology, we learn psychology, we use behavioral science for our you know, to encourage and nudge saving AI is also or behavioral science is also being used at the other end to scam people. So, what can we do? It's all whatever that we do, the good people do, uh bad people are also doing the same, but for different reasons.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Yeah, yeah, unfortunately that's true. And you know, but it gets back to your superpowers. So, Julia, to wrap up, I have what are called the get ready hot take trio. These are three quick questions that I ask all of my guests. The first one is what's one myth about scams that you're trying to break?

SPEAKER_00 29:35

I think the myth that it only happens to gullible people, this is the most dangerous belief out there. And people think I'm too smart to fall for scam. And that belief that overconfidence is exactly makes them vulnerable. And the worst is that because they felt so confident that they will never get scammed, there's also the shame factor to also consider is that they will never this, which is why fraud and scams are underreported. And then the mental health issues come in. So it basically the misses it only happens to gullible people.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

And that's what I've heard from so many people that I've had on the show, and I know from my own experience that scams happen to very well educated, very smart people, very capable people, is that it really does happen to everyone, and that overconfidence can always be an issue in everything. And it's easy where I've seen is that people are very skilled in one area, very knowledgeable in one area, but then they're not as knowledgeable with their money, but they think they're as knowledgeable, and that's that's a danger, is when you think, you know, hey, I'm really smart and I'm really well accomplished, so you know that applies to everywhere. Is that I think you have to understand your limits, and that will help you.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Yeah, the moment you think that it could never happen to me is the moment you're most at risk.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Exactly. It's it's so hard. So, Julia, let's get out the time machine for a minute. If you could go back in time, knowing what you know now about scams, what advice would you give your younger self?

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Well, I would say that um two things uh to build your rainy day before the storm and have a seat at the table. What I mean by having a seat at the table is that you know I wish I would speak, I could speak up more. This is very personal, but I was painfully shy when I was younger, uh, too introverted to speak out, uh, too hesitant to talk. So I get I gave a lot of uh excuses to stay in the background. And so now I would I think one of the things is to tell her is that your voice matters, the concerns that you're afraid to raise, these are often some of the more important ones. Uh the questions that you think are stupid. Someone in the room might actually uh need to hear that. So I would say uh take a seat, ask the question, and to ask for help. I think um help asking for help is not a weakness.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

Yeah, asking for help is not a weakness, and you know, and keep going back to just what you said is people thinking, you know, this is a stupid question, and we can all think back to school where we didn't want to raise our hands, you know, because we don't want everybody else to think we're stupid. But that usually means there's other people in the class or the room who are thinking the same thing and just afraid to not ask that question. But it really it's worse to not ask the question.

SPEAKER_00 32:53

Um especially nowadays, you know, especially when you think about the amount of investment scams that are out there. It's important for us to actually ask the question and maybe even talk to our friends and say, Hey, do you think it makes sense?

SPEAKER_01 33:10

Yeah, and that that is really the thing. And that gets back to exactly what we said is that is one of the reasons why scammers isolate people is because they don't want you to run it by somebody else who's gonna say, Hey, wait a minute, I see a hole here. Because that person is not talking to the scammers, so they're not being manipulated in the same way. So they're able to get a different perspective on it and say, Well, wait a minute, this there's a hole here. So, Julia, the final question is what's your number one insight to help people get ready before life happens?

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Um, number one insight is to know which mode you're in and to protect that transition point. Uh, because most people don't realize how close they are to slipping backward. You just need to have someone in hospital, someone who loses their job. So I think um to really do some soul searching on um what which mode you're in. Uh and well, you may just suddenly find yourself at the kitchen table at 2 a.m. doing maths.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Yeah, unfortunately, it can happen to anybody, and it can happen very quickly, which is you know just something for people who are watching and listening. Uh possibly by the time this show is published, I have a new uh program coming out uh to help people create a financial readiness plan. So I do have a tool. Um, so if you're uh subscribing and listening to this podcast, you'll be able to get access to that. Um, so Julia, where can people learn more about you in your work?

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Well, I am very active on LinkedIn, so I would love to keep the conversation going. Um and that's where I regularly I regularly post about financial crime, financial resilience, and the human side of money. So do connect with me there. I love to hear feedback and hear people's stories as well. And um, basically, the fourth perspective is my LinkedIn newsletter, which comes out uh fortnightly, where I explore the human lens of financial systems, the stuff we talked about today. Um, we can continue that conversation there as well. And of course, you can also get me on my website, uh, which is www.jforsolutions.com. There's a story about the name, but um well, you will get that on the from the website as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Well, fantastic. And then also uh you have a substack. And so for everybody watching and listening, there'll be links uh in the show notes if you have access to the show notes to Julia's LinkedIn newsletter, profile, website, and to her substack in the show notes. So, Julia, thanks for joining us on Get Ready Before Life Happens.

SPEAKER_00 35:58

Thank you so much for having me, Tony. And yep, you've all got this, and we will not have to figure this out alone.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

Yeah, we're not alone. So that's that's fantastic. Um, so and thank you everyone as always for tuning in to this episode of Get Ready Before Life Happens. If this conversation made you rethink how you view risk and inclusion and resilience, please be sure to subscribe and to share with a friend. You can also go to my website at Tony Stewart.com to join the Get Ready Movement and get access to my newsletter and other resources. Because when life happens, the way you think about money matters.